George
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Post by George on Jan 25, 2011 13:57:04 GMT
Ok guys so im looking at a Wakizash to go with the custom SBG Katana order im making in the next batch (soon i hope!) Anyway i dont intend to use the Wakizash, altho i may try a few cuts just so i know it has been used. ANYWAY the place im getting it from is fairly cheap. Ive got Iaido stuff from them and their swords are ok. My question is, what is better. Ive got a choice of a Folded blade (something like 13 times, whis is like 8,000 layers??) OR a clay tempered blade. Personally i like the folded look for soething different BUT both my custom (obviously) and my Hanwei Tanto have a natrual Hamon. So putting looks aside, which will actually make a stonger blade using 1060 High carb?...
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Post by Beaumont82 on Jan 25, 2011 14:11:19 GMT
Well, there's no reason you can't get a folded blade that's also clay tempered (differentially hardened, more precisely). Look at upper end Hanwei, Bugei, Dynasty, et al. which carry both features. Or are you saying the company only offers a clay tempered monosteel and a through hardened folded, but not one that's both?
Personally, I'd not get a folded blade just because I don't think many modern folded blades look all that nice, and the hamon (IMO) seems to show up better on monosteel blades. So clay tempered mono would be my choice.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jan 25, 2011 15:06:07 GMT
edit/add: Beaumont posted while I was typing so there's some repitition of info between us. With modern steels their really isn't any need for folding the metal other than aesthetic. The purpose of this used to be to homogenize the steel, to evenly mix the parts of the steel thus reducing possible weak points. Nowadays we can control the quality of the steel when producing it to a far higher degree than in the past. One concern brought up by others is if you are getting a folded blade made poorly; this can actually make the blade weaker if the layers are not properly bonded. Something like small gaps in the layers can create weak points. However, there is a distiction between what a hamon means to a blade and what folded steel means. The hamon has to do with the edge of the blade being hardened to a higher degree than the spine. A folded blade can have a hamon or not. Clay tempering is a process which causes the edge to cool faster when quenching- so much that it creates the temper line between the two differentially hardend sides of the blade. (edited the following paragraph) Strength is: the ability to keep shape under stress- elasticity, tensile strength or ductility are parts of strength; another way to put it is strength is how well a steel absorbs deformation stresses/energy. I should add strength and toughness are fairly similar in definition for our purposes here. When you say 'stronger' is this what you are asking about? Or are you thinking hardness, which refers to how resilient to impact a steel is.
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George
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Post by George on Jan 26, 2011 0:02:57 GMT
Thanks heaps guys this is what i was looking for. They only offer folded OR tempered. I personally like the way the folded looks BUT you raise valid points when saying if it isnt done properly it will actually be weaker.
I do mean 'stronger' less resilient to breakage when used. So obviously tempered is the go, as the edge is harder (esier to cut without damage) and the back is more flexible.
So folding is an 'old' technique used to make take the impurities out of the steel and even it up yeh? So in todays standards (appart from the look) there isnt much point in it?
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Post by chrisperoni on Jan 26, 2011 1:35:42 GMT
Practically speaking with respect to production blades, no. However when it's done right it does create a great blending of various steel properties along with a stunning pattern. (Just wait until you get into laminated blades... That's when you really get into great combinations of hardness and flexibility). Personally I like a good hamon just as much as a fold pattern. I guess since you really aren't going to cut much with it you need to decide if you want a blade that will match with your others or contrast from them. Also, you know it won't be your last sword anyway
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George
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Post by George on Jan 26, 2011 4:59:23 GMT
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Post by MEversbergII on Jan 26, 2011 14:21:18 GMT
Folding also wont produce a pattern unless you use two different types of steel. Unless I'm wrong, which I frequently am. If its one billet folded 13 times you get 8192 layers by my reckoning.
M.
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George
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Post by George on Jan 26, 2011 14:28:58 GMT
I duno the sword in the Pic is 1045 and 1060 and there are wavy lines EVERYWHERE... So maybe it would make a good pattern to have 2 steels? i have no idea though, im just going off the pics on their site
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Post by 73engineering on Nov 14, 2022 3:03:58 GMT
Hi there I’m looking for some information on folded Clay-Tempered 1060 t10 1070for competition cutter any recommendations
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