Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Oct 8, 2010 12:44:08 GMT
Alright, I finally have enough time to give decent suggestions for this thread Slayer, if your sister really wants to carry a small self-defense knife, here are a few products that I would suggest, and others that I'd recommend to avoid ; **These are my two cents on the subject, keep in mind I'm a big city boy that has never been in a fight, so take everything that follows with a pinch of salt... Also, I've never held most of these knives...FYI** -Cold Steel Spikes ; Avoid. They look cool, but IMHO, they wouldn't be very efficient ; their handles are too small for serious use (hard work or combat) and their blades are made mostly for thrusting ... which is exactly what the handles aren't made for -Cold Steel Double Agent (any of 'em) ; Recommended IMO, the handle seems very grippy and the blade very useable ; great for slashing and thrusting and easy to use. Downside is that these blades look mean, which might be a downside if you get into court. -Cold Steel Hunting knives ; Recommended, small, not-so-threatening-looking short blades that could function well in a fight or in other, more mundane and common tasks. -Cold Steel Point Guard Neck Knives ; Similar to the Double Agents, small, grippy knives, with a mean looking blade. -Cold Steel Counter-Tac II ; My personnal favorite in the Cold Steel small knvies, it comes with a short double-edged, dagger blade and a very ergonomic handle. These knives can be found at very good prices here ; www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... eAs&&&s=49 Here are some other suggestions ; Spyderco Tenacious ; Recommend folder, I own one. It is easy and quick to deploy and it opens with a nice, loud, crisp ''snap''. It feels very solid in hand and has a sharp, nice blade. All that for 40 $ tops. Buck ; They have many small, well-made hunting blades that come cheap and offer good blade and fittings quality. Check out these : www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... 3Dcrockett www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... arq%3Domni www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... %3Ddiamond Gerber has a few nice-looking short blades, although all these examples are 8-9'' long ; www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... l?s=GB8464 This one looks great, it has an hilt made of stag horn ; www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... ?s=GB01841 www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... l?s=GB1121 There's Ka Bar Piggyback ; www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... l?s=KA5599 The Ontario Joe Pardue folders ; Very quick and easy to open, and come in a wide variety of blades and grips, check 'em out too. www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... Djoepardue
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 8, 2010 12:46:30 GMT
Excellent suggestions, Sebastien. However, I've got to offer a hit against the Counter Tac II: it's a dagger and many states in the U.S. classify daggers as dirks, which are illegal to carry.
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Oct 8, 2010 12:51:52 GMT
Oups, forgot that, but a very good point man.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 8, 2010 13:04:46 GMT
Yeah. I make sure to read that part VERY carefully, 'cause otherwise, I might be tempted to finally by a Cold Steel Tai Pan.
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Post by bloodwraith on Oct 8, 2010 13:07:08 GMT
Vincent: How much experience do you have with any type of combat or training that makes you feel qualified at such a young age to give that kind of advice? Also your technique when both wrists are held is flawed in two major ways. First of all in 99% of cases a woman being mugged is going to be outweighed and outmuscled so the sudden wrist hold break is not going to work quite the way you seem to think. I wouldn't be giving advice like that to people who don't have training, also there is no such thing as a self defense knife, no matter who is using it. A knife used to defend yourself is still an offensive weapon and if you leave your attacker bleeding all over the place without any damage to yourself it wont go well for you, especially if the attacker makes up a plausible story. In my sparring and in my training even having a training knife in hand or a wooden knife in hand I have still felt it was an offensive weapon.
Also the SING technique has a few flaws that may prove fatal. The first is if you don't hit your attacker hard enough in the solar plexus then you warn your attacker that you are going to make some sort of effort to resist. The SING method only works from one particular hold, if you practise it and you are not attacked in that way (which if we are honest about it is a really useless way to attack someone) then you are going to freeze when you get to it. The stomp to the instep doesn't always work with all types of shoes and it is very easy for an attacker to move their feet. If the face of the attacker is tucked into the shoulder you can't hit the nose. It is a technique that needs to be done extremely fast, without hesitation.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 8, 2010 13:20:54 GMT
Wraith, I believe I said it before, I was offering suggestions and examples, not advice. I'm nowhere near qualified to give advice beyond schoolyard fights, but anyone can offer a suggestion of what could work. The idea is to take it as such and not take the advice of someone you barely know as solid fact, find an instructor, and get proper training. That's what I'm doing currently: training myself in martial arts. But if you must nitpick, nothing is certain in this world, of that I am sure. Anything can work if you dare to try it. Then again, it may fail horribly and you could die violently. I'm pretty sure the Wright brothers had that mentality when testing their first aircraft. You can never know beforehand, so the best you can do is load the deck by having the proper training.
As for the 'self defense' knife thing, your opinion of it is what determines what it is. If you deem it offensive, then it's offensive. If you deem it self defense and use it as such, i.e., to deter an attacker from attacking or to fend off said attacker, then it becomes a self defense knife. Besides, it also depends on your local laws. In Texas, and in Florida, where Slayer is located, there are gems called the Stand Your Ground or 'Make My Day' laws, wherein it is acceptable to use lethal force to defend yourself or another, regardless of your location, be it at home, in your car, in an alleyway, or at the corner 7-11. After all, the attacker can't make up a 'plausible story' if he's, you know, dead.
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Oct 14, 2010 14:59:50 GMT
Thread moved to the Knives and Daggers Sub-Forum
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LiamBoyle
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Fechtmeister the Clueless of H.A.S.C.
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Post by LiamBoyle on Oct 14, 2010 23:40:44 GMT
Slayer, I pm'ed you if your Sis still wants a fixed blade. However, my recommendation is a 3" folder with opening hole or thumb stud. Spiderco Delica line: www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... q%3Ddelica Cold Steel Voyager: www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... l?s=CS29MC & www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... l?s=CS29MT The reason I say 3" on blade length is that most LEO's I have met judge the blade length on a knife by laying across their palm, if the knife is longer than their palm it's considered too long even though most knife laws do not specify length. The basic knife defense technique is as follows: block or grab with off hand, step in & stab with blade flat, twist knife and slice up or down, then back the **** away and run.
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Post by vince on Oct 16, 2010 10:40:08 GMT
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Post by vince on Oct 16, 2010 10:48:03 GMT
I just got an e-mail that my knife is in stock
ESEE Junglas® Survival pronounced "Hoonglas" has a 10" black textured powder coated 1095 steel blade. Specifications: Overall: 16.5" Blade: 10.5" Blade Edge: 10" Maximum Thickness: 3/16" Handle: 5.88" Weight: 22.5 ounces (Knife Only) High Sabre Blade Grind Hammer Pommel Canvas Micarta Handles Black Textured Powder Coat Finish 1095 Steel Serial Number On Pommel
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Post by Bogus on Oct 17, 2010 2:47:55 GMT
The last time I was at SMKW's showroom I got a Colt branded boot knife that's about 8.5 inches long, and they had a shorter one as well that would meet the criteria. I don't know how 'combat ready' it is but it seems pretty solid, unfortunately their site does not list either of them. Why doesn't she want a folder?
I really recommend a Taser for self-defense though. Or a small pistol. My understanding from hearing about it from gun nuts and law-enforcement types is women can much more easily claim self-defense than men can. Normally I would now commence one of my famous misanthropic gender rants, but in the interest of civility I'll just say it's good news for women worried about personal protection.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 17, 2010 3:14:20 GMT
Bogus, we came to the conclusion a few pages back that a folder would better than a fixed blade due to more options in the size she was looking for as well as legality (a folder could be claimed to be a pocket knife, whereas a fixed blade could not).
She also wanted it for utility, which means no gun or Taser; in addition, an untrained shooter of either can do more harm than good and training can get pretty expensive, what with the amount of rounds you have to put through a pistol to get comfortable and accurate with it. In addition, some junkies who would attack a woman are the type who are capable of brushing off 9mm pistol rounds (unless they're between the eyes or directly in the heart), and could more than likely shrug off the electric discharge of a Taser, whereas there's little shrugging off a gaping hole in their side. Finally, unless you're wearing a special holster which allows one to draw a pistol quickly, how many seconds would it take someone in a stressful situation to draw a pistol, get a bead on their target, and pull the trigger? Next, how far away is the attacker? To be enough of a threat to warrant the drawing of a weapon (of any type), they are usually within five feet; that'll probably vary from person to person as it depends on what your own personal space is, but I know I get pretty uncomfortable if someone's within six feet of me without reason. Now, how long does it take an average male to cover the distance of five feet or less? Probably about half a second since they can do it in two big steps. Can you register a threat, process that you need your weapon, reach for it, draw it, aim, and fire in half a second? While a knife has serious shortcomings of its own as a weapon (particularly when untrained or possibly outgunned), it takes less time to ready, less time to attack, and can be launched from a low position out of the attacker's vision. You don't even have to aim for the torso; you could hit the thigh and rip sideways, severing the femoral artery. Time to exanguinate: between 30 seconds to a few minutes, depending on level of activity. If she stabs and escapes, most junkies will give chase, speeding up their blood flow, essentially hastening their own death.
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Post by Bogus on Oct 17, 2010 3:56:08 GMT
I appreciate your point, but knives--especially folders, assisted or not--take time to do all that stuff too. Particularly if she's planning on keeping it in her purse, surely you know how long it takes females to find anything they've stashed in there... I mostly buy cheap folders, but the nice thing about knives is you can get decent product for peanuts. It's not really a fighting knife, but I've gotten a lot of use out of a Cat Eye linerlock I picked up a couple of years ago for about $5. The blade isn't very sharp out of the box, but that's easily fixed and wasn't a huge issue for my needs anyway. Opened loads and loads of boxes when I was in California (I did volunteer work at a nonprofit's warehouse), unfortunately it seems to have been misplaced during my recent move so I've been relying mostly on said boot knife for that sort of thing. I have a larger lockback of theirs stashed away in a box somewhere, it's pretty solidly built as well and really quite attractive. edit: looks like Discount Cutlery has both of them--EYE019 and EYE005 respectively--though I know nothing about whether that vendor is any good or not. From what little Googling I felt like doing it appears Cat Eye is "made" by Frost Cutlery, i.e. comes from some anonymous workshop in China so where you buy it may not matter much.
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Post by Maynar on Oct 17, 2010 4:29:07 GMT
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 17, 2010 13:39:21 GMT
Bogus, that's a good point and one I brought up near the beginning of this thread. If Slayer's sister is as smart as she sounds, she'll make sure she has a pocket on her pants for it, where it's always in easy reach. As for the knives, I suggested the Benchmade LFK; it's a little over Slayer's 50$ budget (85$ on Knife Center), but it's a folder with a near 5.5" blade of razor sharp steel combined with Benchmade's legendary lockup, meaning that blade's not going anywhere without you (or Slayer's sister) wanting it to. In addition, it has a rapid deployment, like all Benchmades; it's not quite the telekinetic quickness of some of their models, but it's close enough. I say spend more than 5$ on a knife, particularly if you're aiming to defend your life with it. Maynar: See earlier in the topic. I suggested the Kobun first page, but it was too long for what Slayer wants and we determined that it could be considered a dagger due to its fixed blade status, hence why we switched to folders, which can be claimed as a pocket knife if necessary. Plus, the Kobun is 29.95$ on Knife Center, so can't touch that.
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Post by teclis22 on Oct 17, 2010 13:52:55 GMT
My 2 cp
Knives do -not- make a good self defense tool. They can be used for it in a pinch, but there are better options out there that are much easier to use.
This is like one of those threads "what sword is best for home defense" . I recommend the person that looks for knifes as self defense tool to look at other options.
to evade is better then to run to run is better then to deescalate to deescalate is better then to fight to fight is better then to die
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 17, 2010 14:09:08 GMT
Teclis, that is a very good piece of wisdom and it has been discussed that to deescalate is better than to fight, but you have to accept that there are times where it is not an option and where running will only end in a chase where an angry junkie you just tried to negotiate with into leaving you alone is after you because not only does he want your money and valuables, but you pissed him off by speaking down to him. In such cases, fighting is the only option.
And, in such cases, I reiterate, few people will register someone as a threat when they are far enough for mace, a Taser, or a pistol to be effective. As I mentioned a few posts back, a junkie or a drunk probably won't notice either three unless they are to an extremely vital area and I've already discounted mace because it's only effective if it gets in the face, which is a small target. Whereas a knife can be employed and deployed in the space of maybe half a second, which is about how long it would take an attacker to cover the 3-5 feet or so they would be within for you to register they are a threat. For home defense, a sword is only an option if there are too many corners for a gun to be effective. However, on the streets with further calls for gun control, a knife is a better option; in addition, a gun requires a permit, a knife doesn't. And while both require training, knife training is usually accompanied by hand-to-hand training, itself an invaluable tool. They'd probably cost around the same when you take into account gun training courses, licensing, the cost of the weapon itself, and the thousands of rounds you'd have to put through it to become comfortable and proficient with it. Conversely, you could spend that same amount of money (approximately) on a quality Arnis/Kali class which would teach you practical unarmed combat as well as knife fighting techniques.
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Post by teclis22 on Oct 17, 2010 14:41:39 GMT
true there are always posssible situations were fighting is un avoidable and any weapon is better then no weapon. how ever i dont think its wise to prepare for those moments that are percentage wise comperativly small. better to prepare to what is more likes to happen. but the awesome point on the friendliest sword forum is that many options and opinions are allowed here so i leave it to slayer as to what he decides for. best of luck
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 17, 2010 15:02:02 GMT
True, but in the case of a weapon, there's one golden rule: Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Besides, as we covered, it's more for utility and self-confidence than anything, so she'll probably never use it and, if she's lucky, will never have to. But, as you said, we all have our own opinions, so we'll trust Slayer's sister to her choice.
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Post by bloodwraith on Oct 17, 2010 15:15:01 GMT
There is more than one type of taser. A dagger by legal guidelines is a blade with two edges or a false edge not any fixed blade knife. Carrying a knife is asking for trouble plain and simple. Her best option is to avoid situations where she may be forced to deploy a weapon she doesn't know how to use. It is very easy to avoid getting into those situations by being situationally aware, alert and as much as possible staying out of bad areas or walking around at night by herself.
Also the other danger I see many people fall into is complacency, which can be as life threatening as an attack itself. They think they are invincible because they have a weapon and also weapons create escalation, what might have been a simple robbery could turn into something much worse. Spend the $50 on a self defense course, it will be money better spent than giving her something she has no knowledge of how to use. Also with a knife she is more likely to accidentally kill someone because she doesn't know what she is doing, and I don't know about you but I don't want anyone's death on my conscience.
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