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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Oct 4, 2010 3:16:14 GMT
Thanks for all the advice, guys! Curiously enough, my first EDC was a knock off of the ratcheting knife. To be exact, the tanto point with the seat belt cutter. That brought back good memories... now I want one if only to replace the POS $5 version I had 4 years ago. I need to compile a list of all the great knives mentioned in this thread. There must be a dozen that I want, lol. -Slayer
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 4, 2010 3:18:47 GMT
I subscribe to nutn for his excellent and informed gun and knife reviews. Thanks to his reviews (and my own oft lamented empty wallet), I've been saved from getting some rather bad knives, much like the fine fellows here at SBG. I've seen some of cutlerylover's vids and he's a good guy, though perhaps not in depth with all his videos as nutn is, but a solid reviewer. However, I've never heard of Equip2Endure before and some of his stuff looks pretty good, so thanks again for that.
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Oct 4, 2010 4:16:56 GMT
I've noticed this thread about 24 hours ago but didn't have the time to do a post as complete as I would've liked it to be... I will post my personnal knife suggestions later, but for now I'd advise for a can of pepper spray instead of a short fixed-blade knife. A knife with such a short blade would require to get into very close range to be fully effective, and things can be very nasty at that range (opponents can very, very easily touch, grapple and thump each other at that range). A pepper spray (if legal) or a longer weapon would decrease the odds that your sister gets in a gruesome, grueling and dangerous grappling match starring her knife. Just my personnal two cents on that subject... I've never been in a real fight but I trained in a few different martial arts, so take my cents anyway you want to. I'll suggest a few knives later. For now, happy shopping
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Oct 4, 2010 4:39:34 GMT
Thanks, Sebastian. Yeah, pepper spray is legal here, but I really think the knife is more a mental reassurance than a real weapon. I want it to be good in case she ever needs to use it, but I bet it'll just be an EDC for the most part. I mean, there's nothing quite like a deadly weapon to make you more sure of yourself... and I know pepper spray wouldn't make me feel ANY safer facing a dangerous guy, whereas a knife would give me the distinct advantage. I think it works similarly for her, even though she has no clue at all how to use one... (I'll show her the basics, don't worry). My only hope is that she never need to pull the knife, and if she does, the guy will run, but the most important thing is that she wants a knife, and it's my job to make sure it's a good one. So, that being said, your suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'm going to try to get her to carry a small thing of ColdSteel's Inferno as well, but she's resisted the idea before, so I'll take what I can get. I'm sorry, I'm tired, and I have no clue if that makes any sense. :?: So if anything I tpyed sounds stupid or unclear, just give me an FYI and I'll be more than happy to explain, lol. :mrgreen: Thanks! -Slayer
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 4, 2010 4:59:38 GMT
I can't speak for Sebastien, but it made perfect sense to me. Then again, I'm insane. :lol:
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Post by ineffableone on Oct 4, 2010 5:07:59 GMT
I totally agree Sébastien, most often people who pull knives end up giving that weapon to their attacker. It is a range issue often and lack of not knowing how to use a knife properly. Oddly, the true knife fighters (ones who fully specialize in it) I know seem to prefer smaller bladed knives to the big combat/fighting knives. But that is for those who know how to fight with knives alone. Pepper spray is a very good option especially along with a knife as the back up after you spray the spray.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2010 6:04:53 GMT
My friend carries around a small keyring pepper spray for quick access and also a larger can of mace in her purse. If you're a really good brother, let her practice those groin kicks and eye gouges on you.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 4, 2010 7:16:54 GMT
No groin kicks and no eye gouges. Number one reason: every male attacker will expect both and be prepared for one. After personally walking off several groin kicks with only a mild discomfort, I can say from experience that, if her kick succeeds, it will only enrage her attacker further. And frankly, for eye gouges to be successful, you need to be able to grapple with your opponent because, if you're not quick enough, they can grab your wrists, break them, and be even more pissed off. No offense, Rice, but advice like that will get someone killed and probably has in the past. Why women's self defense classes insist on teaching them is beyond me.
If we're going to get onto the topic of striking (rather than a knife or pepper spray; see the end of this post for my opinion on mace), then the best you can aim for is not a single strike in the hopes that your attacker is stupid. Slayer, given that this is your sister's life (and yours, since this applies to everyone), playing nice and only hoping to disable them with a kick to the groin is silly. To quickly disable your attacker, you have several options, the simplest of which is a punch to the throat; with enough force, you will collapse the windpipe leaving them choking on the ground, unable to move for lack of breath. Or you can mix it up and destroy both of their eardrums (slamming a cupped hand over the ear creates a small sonic boom that will tear the eardrum), pull them into a clinch (which is easy, since your hands are already around their head, you just shift to the neck) and then yank their head down into a well time knee, breaking their nose. This will leave them in a great deal of pain, unable to see well, disoriented, and possibly unable to stand. So long as you don't leave yourself vulnerable, you can pretty much get creative, even to the point of breaking their floating rib, which is surprisingly easy if you know where it is. Or there's a punch to the liver; it will leave your attacker heavily winded and unable to move freely for a good fifteen minutes. However, and I'm going to put this in bold to stress it, your best option in any situation is to deescalate the situation to a point where violence is not necessary. Your next option should be to try to get away from the situation if possible (such as if the person bothering you is a pushy drunk who can't get 'go away' into his thick skull).
On the idea of mace, while effective, is extremely limited and, in my opinion, a rather poor choice for self defense. Main reason being that, for it to be effective, it has to actually make it into the eyes of the attacker. While I believe most maces will cause a painful rash on the skin, that is little more than an annoyance, particularly to an already enraged attacker. I know there are some that will affect the lungs, too, which sound like a good idea, but there's also every chance you could get a huff of that stuff in a back-and-forth shuffle trying to keep an attacker away. In addition, because it is in a spray can like spray paint, it is very difficult to aim accurately. Your best hope is the literal 'spray-and-pray'. Next, when you consider that you also hold a can of mace exactly like a can of spray paint, that is to say, tenuous at best, it could be knocked from her grip with contemptuous ease if her attacker is close enough to be a threat. Last, but certainly not least, do I even need mention how disorganized a woman's purse often is? I know from having grown up around women that, more often than not, trying to find something in them is like at a scavenger hunt at the best of times. Now imagine trying to dig through that in a hurry. The chances are equally high that, given a can of pocket sized mace's dimensions, she could just as easily pull out a small can of hair spray, a tampon, or anything of similar size and shape. By the time she manages to dig it out, her attacker could easily be too close for the mace to be effective and I'll leave out the rest of the possibilities for sheer decency.
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Post by ineffableone on Oct 4, 2010 8:06:20 GMT
Vincent I think you missed the point of Darkrice's comment. I really think it was just a joke for Slayer to let his sister kick him in the groin and scratch at his eyes. I don't think Darkrice really was advocating these single things as her primary defense but he was just being silly saying let your sister beat you up for practice.
Remember also Slayer has already mentioned pepper spray to his sister who did not want it. She does want a knife! That is what this OP is about. For us to give him options to help out his sister with what he asked for which was a fixed blade under 7 inches for her to fit in a purse. This was why I did not suggest a folder until after it had been brought up by Slayer himself as a maybe option. I was providing the information asked for. Slayer mentioned his sister is likely not to actually need to use this blade for defense, but that having it is a physiological booster for her. It is true that just knowing you have something to protect yourself can help save you. You no longer act like the victim you have self confidence that makes an attacker move on to someone less confident. Of course just having a knife is not the end all. It is however a good first step.
Not to mention a knife is a tool that goes beyond just a weapon. You can use a knife for a lot of different things and feel like you have it there for a purpose beyond protection alone. Pepper spray, extendable batton, tazer, or gun they are only a weapon. Which means you only have it for that off chance your attacked. A knife can be something you use daily or weekly but never have to use in combat. Honestly I think Slayers sister is a pretty smart little cookie for insisting on a good knife.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 4, 2010 8:51:08 GMT
Yeah, you're right, Ineff. Sorry for the outburst, everyone. Those things happen to be a bit of a sore spot with me because I've met several women who feel that all they have to do to get out of harm's way when attacked by a man is to kick him in the balls (my own mother, included), but how many women have tried to rely on that, only to end up in a ditch? And yet the so-called experts still advocate it in women's self defense. I happen to be rather passionate about practical self defense, rather than just hoping to whatever god a person believes in that something works, so I can go off at times. It's something I need to work on (the going off part, not the passionate part). So, again, sorry for the outburst all.
As for the OP stating that she didn't want pepper spray, I must have missed it. I'm sure you can relate at how your mind tends to jump ahead of you at times, right, Ineff? But everything else you said is more or less what I try to get across in situations like these, though, given my habit of jumping all over the place, I don't do so well... :oops: And you're definitely right about his sister being smart for wanting a knife over everything given its multiple applications. A gun is good for home defense where its only purpose would be to stave off or deal with home invaders, whereas on the streets, it's nothing but a weapon and one that carries a huge stigma. For instance, in the old forums, there was a thread, started by our own Liam Boyle I believe, wondering at what a woman, who had nearly been kidnapped in her neighborhood (and was saved by her dog) and decided to openly carry a gun as a deterrent (which is legal in her state), was fined for doing so because some kid saw it and freaked. Legal or not, that's not exactly the best thing to be carrying with you. Plus, in just about every state, you are required to get a license for carrying a gun, concealed or otherwise, while a knife you can pretty much just grab and go.
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Oct 4, 2010 16:06:02 GMT
Personnaly, I do think the kick-in-the-nuts strike can be an efficient one, I also think it isn't a sure fight-ender ; you have to do that kick well (quick and strong, when it is unexpected) and still be ready in case it doesn't stun your opponent for more than a second. Eye-gouge ; well.. I hope you're ready to get very close and personnal But a loving brother would offer himself as a live target to help his sister learn how to properly do both of these techniques On a more serious note, Slayer said something important IMO. Carrying a knife brings confidence, and that thing alone is important. (BTW your last posts made sense Slayer )
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2010 16:42:41 GMT
Yea, it was a joke. lawd vincent haha i just wanted to see some clips of slayer taking some pain ;o though I believe that groin kicking/squeezing and eye poking/gouging should be practiced. There is a 99% chance the attacker is a male, in which case she probably will be sorely matched in terms of strength. I am pretty sure your sister is smart and would scream for help and Run as fast as she can away towards a more crowded area. This should be her first choice -escape. Simply put, I think this is her best chance at safety. The problem with a criminal out for money, he will run out of nowhere to snatch the purse, rendering any knife, gun, mace inside useless, but then again he is not out for yours truly so you are fine. The other type, the perv or whatever u want to call him, will come out for a nice chat, then either try and choke your neck or come from the front and will grab your wrists. If your hands are not free, your legs are in which case the only option is the groin kick for a let go. If he has you from behind and is using a type of choke hold, the eye gouge/ poke is your safest bet to get free. then run. A criminal is inevitably prepared for violence and conflict, I really do not think a knife will even make them blink. However, based on my observation, most are not good as good as the average runner. Cigs, drugs, alcohol are typically indulged and as a result they are sorely overmatched in terms of speed and lung capacity. The groin kick and eye gouge may be your only option and would definitely slow him down. Unless a woman walks around with a hand on her mace (keychain/pocket) or a pocket folder, they will be useless. Stabbing him in the throat/eye is do-or-die, stabbing anywhere else is equally as risky. He will no doubt resort to using punches, where one blow could knock a woman unconscious immediately. Vince, i'd love to hear what you think. @slayer I noticed you wanted a utility knife as well, break car windows, seat belt cutter? something serrated?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 4, 2010 22:00:09 GMT
While all are valid points, I would like to point out first that screaming 'Fire' would be a smarter move than screaming for 'help.' Nobody responds to help, but when they hear 'fire', people come flocking like moths.
As for when an attacker grabs the wrists, that's hardly eliminating your options; assuming Slayer's sister isn't the type to wear heels every day to every occasion, a solid kick to the kneecap is horrendously painful, particularly if you break it. I have this on first hand experience; I fell down a flight of stairs and landed on the side of my kneecap and could barely walk at more than a snail's pace just to get home. The next day, I could barely get out of bed the pain was so intense. After that, there's a really simple maneuver to use to get out of their grasp, assuming they haven't let go, and this, Slayer, I do recommend letting your sister practice on you!* (But I'll include the specifics of it at the end of the post.) As for when the attacker grabs her from behind, hasn't anyone ever seen the movie Miss Congeniality with Sandra Bullock? Anyways, there's a set of moves she demonstrates in the movie called SING, which stands for Solar Plexus, Instep, Nose, Groin. You elbow them in the solar plexus (the stomach area), stomp on their instep (the foot between the toes and ankle), strike their nose with the heel of your hand in an upward motion, then, and only then, deliver a kick to the groin when the attacker is in too much pain to do anything.
Second, I disagree that most attackers come prepared for violence. Do you know why most people who are mugged are women? Because they look vulnerable, like they can be taken without a fight or the chance of getting hurt. Actual muggers in prison have told police that something as simple as a heavy looking purse or an umbrella is enough to keep them away, because those women can easily turn those things into weapons. How do you think they'd react if the woman pulled a knife and looked like she knew how to use it? Unless he's absolutely confident he can wrestle it away from her without getting cut or stabbed or just has no regard for his own safety, then it is infinitely more likely that he will flee rather than attempt to fight.
*The specifics of the move are quite simple and it's something you can both practice doing. If someone has you by both wrists, the exact how to do it depends on the position, but the intent remains the same. I'll use the example that an attacker has your sister by the wrists so that they're in front of her at about eye level (which seems to be the most common when a man grabs a woman by the wrists). The method of how to escape it is improvised a little from Xing Yi Quan, a Chinese martial art that originated for use by soldiers, but the basics are that you take a step back while simultaneously pulling your wrists down and away from your attacker in a roughly circular motion, and then immediately step forward while pushing your arms back towards them. The suddenness and, frankly, complete unexpectedness of their 'victim' fighting back will throw them off balance or, at the very least, cause them to lose their grip, at which point your sister could make her escape.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2010 23:36:45 GMT
slayer i can barely find any fixed blades with a 7" overall The smallest seem to be aroun 8" overall but don't have such a great "presence". These are all sub -6-7 inches overall. I tried to find guard-like blades where you cannot possibly slip and lose a finger. CRKT Minimalist Bowie $20; tanto version also at same price. ->This one below, the ESEE RAT Izula is just a Beast man. You can see a clip of a guy carving up a 4x4 in half easily. stats:Overall Length: 6.25" Blade Length (end of handle to tip): 2.88" Thickness: .156" Steel: 1095 Carbon Weight: 2 ounces without sheath Finish: Textured powder coat Blade Width: 1.0" Grind: Flat Sheathing: Injection Molded, Black Pommel: Hole to accommodate carabiner Spine: Thumb grippers, .5" long site: www.bladehq.com/item--ESEE-RAT-C ... lack--6595 My faith in humanity, as usual is at an all time low. I am pretty sure everyone here would try to assist someone yelling for help. Sigh* "FIRE!" you are totally right vince, the masses just wanna watch it like some terrible reality show. I doubt SING works because the assailant's chest should be up against your back so you cannot access the solar plexus. Another huge biggie is that the man is taller so the target region (where the lowest ribs meet) is higher than her elbow so she would only hit the abs/stomach with the flat of the arm (an entire tricep region really diffuses the force) instead of an elbow. Stomping on your foot? mhm...I would leave that for the movies; not effective against socks and tennis shoes much less boots. The kneecap Vince does hurt, but you need the force to shatter it. Falling down the stairs likely put your whole body weight onto the bone versus wood/granite or what you landed on. I think this is a risky maneuver, you would want to kick with the tip of your foot (like a shin kick) where your toes could break. A side/flat kick to the knee requires a lot of weight. You are using the example of a mugger Vince, who is just there for money, not focused on really harming his victim. I do not think it is wise to run after a mugger with a knife. I was much more worried of the alternative - the rapist or murderer. A good kick in the jewels should cause a person to collapse for a few minutes. During my last game of college paintball, some girl decided to go all out on me from six feet away in the brush, she was crouched, I was erect. (no pun intended for those with dirty minds) Her aim was undoubtely good, and I was on my knees for at least two minutes. Your sister like push knives, slayer? it's like a huge blade on top of your fist :twisted:
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Post by ineffableone on Oct 4, 2010 23:51:07 GMT
Just a nice interesting fact for those discussing fighting technique.
It only takes 5 lbs of pressure to remove someones ear fast, 10 lbs of pressure if done slow. If you want to seriously freak out and cause easy identification of an attacker, literally rip their ear off.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2010 23:58:06 GMT
I am staying away from you ineffable...even if I am 6 feet 225 gym junkie...where in the world did you find that out?
edit: I got it vince! stab him in the knees...pls not the groin :shock:
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Post by ineffableone on Oct 5, 2010 0:06:31 GMT
I have lived in some rough places. I picked that nugget of knowledge living in Southwest Philly. A friend of mine actually saw it happen during a fight and was fascinated that this could be done so did the research to find out how.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 5, 2010 0:45:27 GMT
That's definitely some good knowledge to have. I'm going to keep that in mind.
@rice: On the subject of push blades, those are actually illegal to carry just about everywhere because they are considered daggers, and therefore weapons with no utility value.
I was using the SING thing as an example. Ideally, you would want to strike either the liver or the floating rib with the elbow and, against a taller opponent, a rising backwards elbow (such as would be delivered when held in a choke hold) would be ideally placed to strike these two vulnerable areas. As for the instep, you're right, it's pretty weak even if they just wear shoes, which is why I suggest aiming for the point where the foot joins the ankle; it's one of the leg's weakest points and can easily be broken. As for a side kick to the kneecap, it doesn't require weight so much as momentum, which, admittedly, does tend to be easier to gain with weight. However, remember the movement I detailed whereby you essentially pull yourself out of the attacker's grip by using their own weight and balance against them? As you pull and you turn your body, you're in perfect position to strike at the knee while they're stumbling straight at you, providing you momentum.
Or, if that's too difficult a target, there's the soft area just above the groin, but below the navel. That's the center of balance for humans. Strike that and they'll have a difficult time standing; the shock from the blunt force trauma of a kick can do serious harm, potentially leading to death. And I never said to run after the mugger with a knife; they'll run away themselves and you can go on your merry way. With regards to the rapist, he'll be too focused on other things to pay much attention to not getting hurt himself; in fact, many expect it as the woman tries to fight back, usually ineffectively. As for the murderer, well, if he's just focused on killing you, he's not going to waste time doing it, he's just going to do it. A quick stab and you're bleeding out or a loud bang and you're dead or dying. The only real way around that is to tackle them before they can draw their weapon, since I doubt even a random murderer would be stupid enough to carry it in broad daylight. Of course, even more important than any of this knowing safe and unsafe areas; places where you can be sure you're relatively safe (you're never safe leaving your house these days) and places where you need to watch every shadow and listen to everything that moves. If your sister is smart, Slayer, she'll never go anywhere near the latter places near dark, let alone after sunset.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2010 1:30:37 GMT
I did not know that about push and pull blades vince; Now I really need to get a seber that ineffable linked since I'm guessing it could perform the same function at a right angle.
Oo remember to teach her the "stab and drag" / "push and pull" rather than stabby -stabby slayer! Huge mistake to thrust only. Those people who get stabbed "X" number of times in the news really do linger...
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 5, 2010 1:48:58 GMT
Yeah. I had to look it up since most push blades are double edged. They're mainly illegal because they can be used without skill and yet still inflict a mass amount of damage. Which is a shame, 'cause there's some 12$ United Cutlery ones I'd like to get... Mainly because they're balanced well enough for throwing, which is an added bonus!
Definitely. Stab and drag creates more damage without that gory 'victim was stabbed 47 times' headline that send conservatives into an apoplectic fit of anti-knife legislation.
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