Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 3:46:19 GMT
At the risk of sounding completely ignorant, what is a ko katana? Besides the length difference, and some variation in the shape, I can't tell what the difference is between ko katanas and a katana, or wakizashi. For that matter, what is the point or use of the ko-katana?
Please help out the ignorant gaijin, Sumimasen!
I have thus exhausted my knowledge of Japanese...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 3:56:09 GMT
In laymans terms a Ko-katana is a katana that is shorter then a normal katana like a wakizashi but it has a full lenght tsuka to be used with two hands.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 7:12:28 GMT
Wak sized blade, but typically a katana sized tsuka, 10 inch or so. Yup, dat's it. Ko-kat is abbreviation for kodachi, also called chisa-katana from what I understand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 7:14:40 GMT
That's all well and good, but why would someone want one of these? Now I find them intriguing and quite beautiful, but they seem a bit impractical to my eyes.
Let me clarify, the zweihanders that were wielded by landsknechts also seem quite impractical, but they served a purpose, and were relatively successful to that end. What niche did the ko katana fill?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 7:49:06 GMT
Like what the others said. A Wakizashi with a katana's tsuka. But some like to use a standard katana length saya to deceive the enemy. Of course the blade is much shorter. However, I don't find much use but everything has a purpose right?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 9:18:03 GMT
/index.cgi?board=japaneseswords&action=display&thread=15823
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 9:30:29 GMT
Ah, I was looking for that thread. Good on ya, Geir.
|
|
|
Post by lobsterhunter on Aug 28, 2010 10:40:49 GMT
Yup, it seems that "ko-katana" is just a modern manufacturer's term for a compact katana. If you go by how the Japanese classified edged weapons: blade length under 1 shaku (about 12 inches) = tanto, between 1 and 2 shaku = wakizashi, over 2 shaku = katana or tachi, the Cheness ko-katanas with their 21-22" blades would be considered more like wakizashis with longer tsukas, whereas the Dynasty Forge ko-katanas with their 23.5-24.5" blades might qualify as short katanas. Whatever. I like being able to swing my Cheness Kaze Ko around with 2 hands, though I suspect it would handle a lot more like a sword and less like a REALLY long knife if it had just a couple of more inches of blade.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 10:43:44 GMT
That's all well and good, but why would someone want one of these? Now I find them intriguing and quite beautiful, but they seem a bit impractical to my eyes. They are lighter and faster than katana, and easier to carry. They are also easier to wield one-handed, and could be used two at a time, one in each hand (in theory). Of course, if you're a super stud like Musashi you can wield a full length katana in each hand! Personally I just like the way they feel more than the longer blades. Musashi did write that a shorter sword would have an advantage over a longer sword in close quarters (for example, while indoors). But he also said that relying on a shorter sword is "not the true way to win" and if one is physically strong enough to wield a longer sword without difficulty there is no point in fighting with a shorter sword.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 11:16:49 GMT
I think we have to separate between Koto and Edo when it comes to japanese sword history. Of course there are no absolutes and lots of abbreviations, but in Edo the average samurai carried the daisho, katana and wak. Samurai in official duty carried the daisho as prescribed by the Tokugawa edicts. Before Edo the sword system was less rigid, and need and personal preferences dictated the length and shape.
Merchants on the other hand often carried swords less than 2 shaku in Edo, richly decorated and with a more elaborate design and shaping than the samurai. They sometimes mimiced the samurai sword by putting on longer handles and scabbards.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 14:10:54 GMT
this is me copying from my own post about amonth back. " And I want a shorter sword to have around the house just incase any one ever breaks in ( I could totally see myself dragging my PK through 5 ft of ceiling before getting stuck in a support beam and me having to be to the robber, " Oh, Hi. Yes come right in. Yes please step around the sword in the ceiling, I do leave things lying around in awkward places sometimes. Take whatever you'd like." I thought it'd be easier to have around the house for protection. Someting within easy reach, and not to long to be cumbersome in a tight space.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 15:19:10 GMT
this is me copying from my own post about amonth back. " And I want a shorter sword to have around the house just incase any one ever breaks in ( I could totally see myself dragging my PK through 5 ft of ceiling before getting stuck in a support beam and me having to be to the robber, " Oh, Hi. Yes come right in. Yes please step around the sword in the ceiling, I do leave things lying around in awkward places sometimes. Take whatever you'd like." I thought it'd be easier to have around the house for protection. Someting within easy reach, and not to long to be cumbersome in a tight space. Well this has for a long time been a pet peeve of mine - the idea of using a sword for home protection. Just to say again, its not a good idea! Many threads on this forum exist regarding the practicality of using a sword for home defense. If you're old enough to purchase a sword then go purchase a shotgun - a simple 12ga. pump would be fine and load it with #4 shot. Easy to use, quick and mass amounts of stopping power. That and you don't have to worry about dragging it through 5 ft of ceiling should you ever have a break in. That said I'll chime in on the whole ko-kat issue - frankly I've never been a fan of them. I've handled the DF ko-kat and the CS Chisa and my conclusion is they're single handed swords and would do better with a shorter tsuka. Wakizashi and tanto were close quarter combat weapons of their day. Ko-kats well... they would have just been waks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 15:43:39 GMT
this is me copying from my own post about amonth back. " And I want a shorter sword to have around the house just incase any one ever breaks in ( I could totally see myself dragging my PK through 5 ft of ceiling before getting stuck in a support beam and me having to be to the robber, " Oh, Hi. Yes come right in. Yes please step around the sword in the ceiling, I do leave things lying around in awkward places sometimes. Take whatever you'd like." I thought it'd be easier to have around the house for protection. Someting within easy reach, and not to long to be cumbersome in a tight space. Well this has for a long time been a pet peeve of mine - the idea of using a sword for home protection. Just to say again, its not a good idea! Many threads on this forum exist regarding the practicality of using a sword for home defense. If you're old enough to purchase a sword then go purchase a shotgun - a simple 12ga. pump would be fine and load it with #4 shot. Easy to use, quick and mass amounts of stopping power. That and you don't have to worry about dragging it through 5 ft of ceiling should you ever have a break in. That said I'll chime in on the whole ko-kat issue - frankly I've never been a fan of them. I've handled the DF ko-kat and the CS Chisa and my conclusion is they're single handed swords and would do better with a shorter tsuka. Wakizashi and tanto were close quarter combat weapons of their day. Ko-kats well... they would have just been waks. why not using slugs lol ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 15:54:37 GMT
There's a danger of over penetration with a slug. Granted very little in the way of body armor would stop a 1oz. slug from a 12ga. at close ranges but then I don't think your average burglar or home invasion thug is going to come in wearing mil-spec body armor. If someone does break into your home wearing mil-spec armor then you have other things to worry about. lol
Anyway if you're loading #4 shot and you miss (which is possible in a house since there really isn't that much of a spread out to about 20 ft of distance) you won't penetrate most walls in a house and still have enough kinetic energy to kill. Less danger to innocents.
Btw - don't get me wrong about swords - I love them. I keep a wak tucked between my headboard and my mattress but my hands will always go for the guns first.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 16:18:12 GMT
Well, I thought I'd give my two-cents, though I am certainly no expert on the matter . In the Bujinkan ,where I train, it is mostly accepted a ko-katana were the 'true' shinobi-gatana/ninjato of practitioners of Ninjutsu and not the straight bladed swords that people are used to seeing. I also know that Cheness based their 'Oniyuri' blade on Hatsumi Sensei's own personal sword which is also a ko-katana. Now, I am not going to debate what a ninjato really looked like as that debate has gone on for years, and to be honest it bores me and personally I have always cared more for the effectiveness of a weapon/technique than it's historical merit. As said earlier on in this thread, it was much preferred to use this sort of blade in indoor/tight spaced situations than a full length katana for obvious reasons. Also, it is much faster to draw and wield than a katana. The advantage of having a full length saya and a shorter blade is you could store things such as blinding powders or shurikens etc. I saw a demonstration a few years back where an attacker used powder in the end of his saya to blind a potential attacker...looked quite effective to me Of course having a long tsuka also gives you the versatility in gripping the blade in various ways. Though, the main advantage I think of this unique blade is that we use the full length of the tsuka in various 'lock' techniques in some taijutsu (body technique/unarmed style) . After having some of these techniques done on me by some of my fellow practitioners, I can safely say.... "ouch"..it's effective! One of my friends I train with said he's always liked this blade as it takes the best of both worlds (the wakizashi and katana) and I'm inclined to agree with his opinion On a completely different note: sam I am, here in the UK a shotgun in the house is definitely not an option, so if it came down to it (and hopefully it never will) my sword will have to do. There's an infamous news story over here of a poor farmer who's house got broken into multiple times by the same person until finally, he tried to protect his livelihood with a shotgun and shot the burglar but he didn't die. The farmer got sent to prison and I hear that burglar's family went to sue him on top of it!!!
|
|
Dom T.
Member
Success, depress, ambition. Progress, regress, recognition.
Posts: 766
|
Post by Dom T. on Aug 28, 2010 16:27:27 GMT
I think I remember the Oniyuri is actually based on a design based on the one guy's own sword + a few extra inches to the tsuka or something ridiculous like that. Oh, and by now, I would hope that everyone here already knows that Hollywood 'ninjato' are a modern invention. We've been over this so many times already. Sorry for you people who just got here and haven't seen it come up time and time again though. Kinda like the whole swords as home defense argument.
If you use a sword to defend yourself at all, I'm pretty sure it'll just get harder to get swords in the UK. Heck, even here in the States it could happen. Seems like anything that can cut the other guy will get you in trouble for some damn reason. Instead, I'd suggest something innocuous, like a baseball/cricket bat. They can't ban those, and you can say that you just reached for the nearest object.
*Edited so that I wouldn't use 'Heck' to start a sentence twice in a row.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 16:38:06 GMT
Dstealth - there's states here in the US that are like that too. Personally I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Too many criminals running around with illegal guns nowadays. I'm not sure how much of an issue that is across the pond there but it is so here. I'd prefer to have even odds or even stacked in my favor if I can.
Dom - Good suggestion on what else to use. Personally though I'd rather not close on the perp to use a melee weapon of any sort. I guess I'm a coward in that way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 16:59:54 GMT
You're absolutely right Dom, the sword would only be reached for in an extreme circumstance. I'd like to think that I could take care of the thief unarmed in the first instance, but yes a baseball/cricket bat would be perfect. Weirdly enough, I don't own any one of those but I do have my trusty Ninja 3000, titanium, acid edged, forged by the norse and greek gods of the future, wall hanger who's scabbard could knock any being out cold ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 18:29:52 GMT
I have a bokken next to my bed. Better than both a baseball bat and a sharp sword, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Ronin Katana on Aug 28, 2010 20:32:50 GMT
Best wak vs kat in close quarters fight scene I know of. The entire move is very good if you have not seen it.
|
|