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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 18:58:05 GMT
is sharpening a cs 1796 lcs with an accusharp a good idea?
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Avery
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Post by Avery on May 17, 2010 19:11:35 GMT
Not particularly, no. Some folks here will tell you never to use an accusharp or similar product on a sword. I tend to agree with it, but I'm not so hardcore about it to come down on somebody for doing so. First, an accusharp will leave a very steep secondary bevel that, due to changes in the steel as you pull it down the blade, will make it steeper in some places than in others. Second, it's actually very easy to screwup useing one of those and a 2 second mistake could cost a lot of time in repair. Third, folks will tell you that it's not historically accurate. I'll argue this point though. Swords that came straight from the smith had a lenticular bevel, sure, but I have seen articles that talked about how a common foot soldier sharpened his blade. and nine times out of ten it resulted in a secondary bevel.
My suggestion would be to study up on drawfiling and do it that way. But, it is your sword to with as you wish and if you still want to give the accusharp a go, just be careful and remeber to wear thick gloves.
Edit:spelling
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2010 2:04:56 GMT
I'll be even more succinct. Bottom line: Yes.
Especially since the CS comes sharp to begin with. The concern about messing up an edge w/ an Accusharp becomes virtually non-existent when the edge is already there, as very little pressure is required. All you're doing is maintaining the edge, not creating it. (And yes, I'm the blasphemer around here who maintains all his edges that came good that way. Hey, what works works.)
Not to mention if your 1796 is like mine it came, like the Shamshir for that matter and many Cold Steels, with a very effective secondary bevel to begin with.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on May 18, 2010 2:33:11 GMT
<------- there it is yeah, I'm an edge snob but you don't have to be. I agree with pretty much everything Avery said. I would never EVER touch any of my babies with one of those . . . things. if it works for you then that's ok by me but then again there are people with very odd tastes in the world. for me there are just too many things to go wrong. you cannot control the angle, as you use he accudull the blades can shift around as it starts to get old and the plastic housing starts to wear it's true many historic sword were sharpened with secondary bevels and if you are going onto a battlefield where you will meet armored opponents then a secondary might even be a good idea but don't do it with one of those things, do it with a file or stone or even sand paper by hand or on a machine. the fact of the matter is none of us (I hope) will be taking our swords onto a battlefield, we will instead be cutting things in our back yards. soft things like water bottles and milk jugs, tatami and MAYBE (if we are lucky) bamboo. against soft targets like these steep secondary bevels just don't perform as well. I don't know about you all, but I'm out there to have fun (and study but this study is fun) a good sharp blended edge is a lot more fun than a crappy inconsistant edge. as for maintaining an already sharp edge, again do as you like, but sooner or later you will have changed the geometry of your sword. if you are ok with that then have at it. I'm not ok with that. edges are a matter of opinion really. but my edges cut better
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2010 4:33:44 GMT
What can I say? I have Windlasses I first put an edge on w/ an Accusharp almost 25 years ago and have used almost continuously with only occasional touchups. Still working just fine--specifically for backyard cutting.
If anything, if I'd have a "battlefield" preference it'd be for appleseed, and then only slightly, because they seem to require slightly less frequent touching up, and I'd say would be the more robust one against a bit heavier targets.
I don't know where you're getting the secondary bevel as being steeper, Tom. Any Accusharp I've ever used--and especially the first one I started with, which was for bowhunting broadheads--if anything, puts too shallow and "razor" like an edge on, which if I had any concerns about would it being more fragile than a historical user would like.
Then again, I've heard more than a few people on this forum refer to overly thick blades as "machete"-like, when proper machetes are thinner than what usually would be preferred in a sword, not thicker. Hearsay is tough to counter. But believe me, actually examine the bevels caused by an Accusharp and the actual angle of most of them out there, the angle isn't too steep but, if anything, too shallow. That's why it doesn't matter for recreational targets though.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2010 5:17:04 GMT
I should add, though, an emphasis on total blade geometry and appropriateness of a secondary bevel or appleseed edge. It makes all the difference, particularly in conjunction w/ how a sword is to be used.
For example, I recently scored a great deal of a brokwn blade from Albion's moat sale that was I believe from a Kern. Though badly nicked in spots, it still cut remarkably well. What struck me about the appleseed edge, however, was that (other than the nicks) how easily I could grip the blade, when it'd be easy to slice my hand open trying that on my Shamshir. For a sword intended to be used at all in halfswording, or perhaps just as a safety measure for a longsword or two-hander carried about w/o a scabbard, a good appleseed edge could be a good choice.
On the other hand, for a dedicated one-handed "cutter" like a Pattern sabre, a secondary bevel might not just be historical but quite sensible. (Or should have been. Recall the example when Indian troops used such sabres to great effect only to have the British marvel and ask what technique the Indians were using, only to be told to sharpen the damn blades--a sharp blade will cut well in the hand of any man.)
The overall sword type and blade type, as well as obviously its intended use, dictate what's appropriate. There is no universal "appleseed" or "secondary bevel" rule, any more than there's a universal rule on thrust/cut/both, straight or curved, one- or two-handed, etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2010 17:55:49 GMT
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on May 18, 2010 21:45:54 GMT
Lemal brings up some great points about overall geometry and the fact that the dern things are different too (Mikeeman mentions this too). the only accusharp I have used was for kitchen knives and scissors and I don't know if it was really an Accusharp brand but yeah it seems to use a pretty steep angle to me but it's been a long time ago since I had it so I can concede that point. all the same, it seems to me that not being able to control the angle is a bad thing. the angle that is right for one sword is not right for the next and when it comes to that geometry of the sword does make a big difference in cutting ability.
I have seen pictures of people who dug up their edge with one on accident and it seems really easy to do that.
in the end I think it is very important for a person to know how to properly care for their swords and to me that means knowing how to sharpen and polish by hand and anything that undermines that knowledge is a bad thing for sword owners from my perspective.
but if it works for you, and you are happy with what you get using it, hey who am I to judge you? go for it.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2010 4:52:48 GMT
Well, out of the 20 or so swords that I have I do have a couple that those scrape sharpeners do okay on but for the most part I don't like them. They take a lot of material off quickly and sometimes in a very uneven manner. The plastic housing starts to heat up / wear out as well. If you do use it, go very light and don't let the little blades get too hot. Honestly I think there are better sharpening alternatives but some people seem to do fine with them and I do have a Windlass that loves them. Good luck.
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