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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 1:37:31 GMT
I've never understood the benefit of using a blunt sword in combat. I'm sure a blunt sabre could cause a serious wound, but it wouldn't be as serious as it could have been if it were sharpened. So why were blunt sabres so widely used? I've heard it was so they didn't get stuck in bone, but I'm not sure if that makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 1:41:40 GMT
I know that the new officer had to go to the guy who did the sharpening after he was issued the saber and pay him to sharpen it, so maybe most of the new Officers were cheep guys and the blunt force truama was enough....SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 1:59:53 GMT
I've never understood the benefit of using a blunt sword in combat. I'm sure a blunt sabre could cause a serious wound, but it wouldn't be as serious as it could have been if it were sharpened.
So why were blunt sabres so widely used?
Proper sharpening of a weapon is a gift not everybody has. It's easy enough to semprini the job if you don't know what you're doing.
The finer the edge the greater the suseptibility to chipping in sword to sword contact. A duller blade has more surface to absorb a strike. We're not talking about "blunt" on military swords so much as a degree of sharpness.
So there is logic to a "military edge", but I'm for a well sharpened blade.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 4:22:17 GMT
A good portion of military sabres were sheathed in metal scabbards, which caused blades to dull faster over the years than say a wood or leather cored scabbard. People today who have a old sabre are continually reminded not to sharpen an original as this will decrease their value.
I'm under the belief that aside from dress blades, sabres that did see service were kept sharp although I have heard one faction's belief that they were less sharp than other blades to avoid cutting their own horses up. This is not an idea that I personally favor although I have heard it brought up more than once.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 4:41:41 GMT
British officers would have their swords sharpened when they expected to see active service (i.e., embark on a campaign). Generally, officers who never saw combat did not have their swords sharpened. This is evident in my collection. Of my Victorian swords, all but two are sharp or were sharpened for active service--one belonged to an officer who did not see any action, and the second was probably never carried into battle (men with swords made good targets for the Boers). I am not sure what the practice would have been amongst other ranks who carried swords (e.g. cavalry troopers), but I imagine it would have followed similar lines.
Given the nature of the warfare in which Britain was engaged in the 19th century, swords were still used and were relevant weapons for the hand-to-hand combat that occurred. I am not sure the same held true for other Western powers, including the United States. I think that before saying that sabers were rarely sharpened one must look at where, when, and who was using the saber. Sharp sabers were certainly not rare in the British Army.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 5:05:13 GMT
Jonathan, You have an awesome collection!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 16:00:42 GMT
Jonathan, You have an awesome collection!! Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 18:35:16 GMT
The mass production of durable and cheap, but blade dulling metal scabbards is a big reason sabers are usually found dull. Only if an officer (or trooper) expected to see action were they sharpened--and there was usually a regimental armorer who would do it for you (you were expected to tip him, depending on your means).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2010 16:24:47 GMT
Jonathan, what is the degree of sharpness, are the scary scary sharp or serviceably sharp.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2010 21:11:39 GMT
The edges vary from serviceable sharp to scary sharp--or what would have been scary sharp when the sharpening was fresh. Most edges look like the work of regimental armourers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 0:51:21 GMT
I'd also think that a lot were sharp, got used (for some task or another), and were never resharpened again. I've seen an antique sabre from the civil war that was dull, but had the tell-tale marks of having been in someone at some point in time.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 0:14:21 GMT
Cavalrymen, it must be remembered, fight from horseback and, generally, at a gallop; hacking and slashing with the edge of a sword is not nearly as effective in this type of battle as using the point to skewer one's adversary.
At a gallop, the weight of a body would drag the sword rearward, allowing the body to slide from the blade so that the cavalryman could bring the point back on line more quickly than he could recover from a chopping or slashing blow.
This practice lead, in time, to the adoption of straight swords over sabers in the late nineteenth century, with Henry Wilkinson's 1908/1912 sword and George Patton's 1013 U.S. sword representing the pinnacle of the cavalry sword's evolution, even replacing lances as the preferred weapons for horsemen.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 0:19:09 GMT
Oops, Patton's straight sword was the U.S. model of NINETEEN thirteen, NOT "1013."
Forgive my fat, blundering fingers!
My point (punintended) was that by the time of the first whirled war, the edge was neither needed nor used in mounted combat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2010 5:50:08 GMT
even if a sabre isn't sharp you can still stab someone to death with one, as long as it has a point it can kill.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 9:57:52 GMT
While some did not bother, a lot of Combat troops did I am sure. I could not imagine knowing I was going into combat and not have my sword sharpened. For the possible encounter with an enemy I would want to infllict as much damage as possible to him in order to incapacitate him as quiclkly as possible. When Confederate Gen. Wade Hampton formed his "Hampton Legion", S.C. Vols, he ordered the cavalry contingent of his legion to sharpen their swords. I know someone who has the original 1860 lt cav sabre toted by their ancestor in the Prattville Dragoons, Co. "H". 3rd Alabama Cav, CSA (made by H. Boker, Solingen, Germany) and it is still very sharp. Only the forward half of the blade was sharpened. The rear half's edge (the forte) was left dull and still has a lot of dents and all from combat or sparring, etc.. Freebooter
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 10:08:34 GMT
Hey Bloodwraith, You mentioned the point. In April of 1865 during a running cavalry battle or fight Confederate Cavalry General Forrest was attacked by a young Union officer on Gen. J.H. Wilson's command at the Battle of Ebenezer Church, Al. The young Lt or Capt came upon Forrest's flank from the rear and repeatedly stuck Forrest in the arm and side with his sabre (with the edge), inflicting very bloody and painful wounds. Forrest managed to get his pistol out and shot the officer, killing him. Forrest later said that had the young officer had more experience he would have known to use the point instead of the edge or he (Forrest) might not be there to tell the story. Just thought you might find that interesting.
When mounted cavalry close on someone from the rear it is the most weakest vulnerable his oponent can be and it would be easy to just skewer the guy from behind that wail away with the edge, unless you can strike a good neck or head. Freebooter
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Post by johnlundemo1 on May 2, 2010 1:52:35 GMT
A favorite shot from horseback is down at the collar bone of a foot soldier which will break easily and put men out of action. You will find alot of old Islamic sabers also dulled like this with actually flatened edges for this reason. Getting a sword stuck in someone while on horseback can be a hazard. Skewering while riding by can get your sword twisted from your grip or a damaged swordarm.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 3:57:13 GMT
Hey John, Yep, that makes sense. I love those Arab and Indian Tulwars, Shamshirs, and Scimitars.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 11:52:26 GMT
The chances of catching your blade in the body on the charge are extremely high because of the angle. The best target for a sharp blade on a charge is the neck, specifically the back of the neck. Best weapon for horseback combat in terms of the charge is an axe, the sheer cleaving power combined with a horse's momentum would mean a very slim chance, also a warhammer because there is absolutely no chance of complications, especially if you hit the head and explode it like a melon. A blunt sabre is not that silly of an idea, you can do more damage to the body with blunt force than cutting or thrusting, unless you strike arteries or muscle clusters or run through the right area of the body.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2010 2:29:36 GMT
I love a curved blade!
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