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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2009 17:25:10 GMT
Hello all,
I am no expert on American Civil War cavalry sabres so I came here for answers: I went to a Gun Show yesterday and saw supposedlly an original 1860 Lt. Cav. Sabre. It sure looked aged. But it felt slightly blade heavy and the blade, while looking original with its darkish patina, was like 3/16" thick from hilt on, like repros are. And I have had probably around ten repro 1860 Lt Cav sabres in my life. To me it felt and was built like a repro but its aged looking patina made it look like an original.
If I am not mistaken, original ones are close to a 1/4" thick at the hilt, slightly rounded on the back of the blade, and distally tapers on down to the point, where as repros that I have seen are 3/16" thick from hilt almost to within a few inches of the point. This one was like the latter and flat on the back edge of the blade like repros.
So my question is this: Did any original U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav Sabres, Ames Mfg or contract, come with this thin 3/16" thick blade from hilt to near poiint and flat on the back edge? Or was the sabre at the gunshow a repro artificially aged or something? Just curious.
Thanks,
Freebooter
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2009 19:27:25 GMT
While it's possible it is just a poorly balanced original, it equally as likely to be a reproduction that has been distressed to look original. You really need to know things like inspectors marks to be able to tell. You can add a patina to the brass just by using ammonia. One of the members over at MyArmoury did just that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2009 21:31:43 GMT
Where's Larry or Hotspur...this type of sword is their purview.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 12:46:26 GMT
Originals were about 5/16" at the hilt; if you had gotten some photos we could have helped a bit better  Probably just a Windlass. M. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 16:16:49 GMT
Yup, most probably a doctored up repro. I say this because, in my experience, if you can't tell for positive sure it is an original, figure it's a fake. Especially at a gunshow. I would be a little less skeptical if they have a real store,and a business license,and a reputation for honest dealings among the civil war collectors.
This is an area where we really need to do our homework to try to keep from being taken. Hotspur has given us lots of information on telling real from fake, and has posted numerous links for us to follow in search of the truth. Read back thru his "when good can be very bad" thread for some examples.
Hope this helps, K
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 2:11:21 GMT
Freebooter,
I have a 1860 sabre made by Mansfield and Lamb in 1864. It was used by my great, great grandfather who was a Lt. Col in the CSA cavalry under Forrest. (this is what got me interested in swords)
I just measured it (not with a miccrometer) it's 7mm on the spine at the hilt and distal tapers to about 1mm at the point. Blade is unsharpened.
If you think the sword you were handling is a repro, then I'd go with your gut. I've bought one genuine antique at a show; a fairly battered post 1815 French dragoon sabre......but then again as you live in Alabama, then you might turn up the fair dinkum article at a gun show!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 1:31:55 GMT
Ames, the largest and best known manufacturer of the 180 and 1862 sabers, are still in business and still making the 1862 to original specs - for a measly $200! Check 'em out @ www.amessword.com |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 16:55:23 GMT
Thanks for the link; I wonder if they're made to be sharpened or if they're rebated for stage combat.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2010 1:39:09 GMT
Hello all,
The modern Ames are not exactly like originals from the 1860s. Their distal taper and blade thickness is just like other repros: I ordered an Ames 1860 Lt Cav sabre a few years ago along with five from Museum Replicas. The MRL ones and the Ames one are indestinguisable, or almost so. And the Ames, just like the MRL ones, has the thinner 3/16" from hilt to almost point.
I called Ames and talked to someone and found out the Ames blades are made in India and sent to them for assembly at the Ames Sword Factory. Their hilts are still made at Ames if I remember correctly. While I am sure the metalurgy, hardness and temper of the Ames blades were well made, in my opinion they are the same blade as on other repros, all made in India, exactly like MRL's. So I would not be surprised if they were made at the same place, by Windless Steelcrafts or some other such Indian company.
Don't get me wrong, the Ames were beautiful and well made, higly polished and tempered, but the distal taper is like repros, not like originals. At least mine was. Just thought I would through that in.
Later,
Freebooter
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2010 3:28:53 GMT
Thanks for the feed back; I think I'd stick with the MRL one.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 14:52:12 GMT
I've noticed that KOA has both Union Saber and CSA Cavalry Saber versions. Are these exceptional examples or are actual instances comparable to what is depicted in the photos? (I have the impression, accurate or not, that a sword manufacturer may farm out to smaller concerns jobs producing an end product that varies in quality and consistency.) They appear quite similar except for handle wrap and blade etchings/markings (and the union model has an additional fuller). Not identical, but the physical dimensions are very close and the brass furniture looks the same. |
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