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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 9:32:09 GMT
I'll give the short version first. (Short) I've ordered Gen 2's "Black Prince" www.sword-buyers-guide.com/battle-ready-medieval-sword.htmlas my first beater sword and it's so popular that almost everywhere I look it's on backorder. While looking at the Arms of Valor website, it didn't list the Prince as sold out or on backorder, so I thought I had lucked up. But after placing my order, a customer service rep got back to me very quickly and informed me that they were out as well. I have a couple other options that I had been looking at, such as the Practical Long Sword www.sword-buyers-guide.com/VA-Long-Sword.htmland the Two Handed Gothic Sword www.sword-buyers-guide.com/german-swords.htmlShould I hold out for the Black Prince or get one of the other two instead? I'm looking for a sword that can be "rode hard and put up wet" so to say. (Long) I've recently decided to give into my childhood fantasy of owning a real life sword. Before this point I haven't had disposable income or the renewed interest to obtain a sword. For the past 2 weeks I've been looking hither and yon across the internet, reading reviews and watching various performance tests being done on swords and I've settled on the 3 I've listed above. Basically I'm looking for a "no frills" hand and a half sword. I'm also looking for one that is built as a beater. I'll eventually pick up a sword or two from the A. Trim line as I understand the quality of his weapons are top notch. I also wouldn't mind being pointed towards other "if you have the money and want a seemingly indestructible sword" sites. I think my second option, as I wont be able to get the Black Prince till late October, would be the practical longsword. I do have my reservations about it tho. From the pictures it looks like the handle is chord wrapped and there is something about chord wrapped handles that I don't quit trust. I also like the shape of the blade on the longsword. It doesn't taper down until the last couple inches and is overall a very simple, no frills but handsome blade. The only thing that I'm not a fan of on the longsword is that the POB is very close to 6 inches from the guard while the Prince is about half that. If anyone out there has had experience with any of these 3 blades (But preferably the Prince and Longsword) and could give a hands on testimony of how they both stack up against each other, your advice would be greatly appreciated. If it isn't all that apparent, I'm not really crazy about the German hand and a half. The pommel is a bit to flourishy for me and it also has the distal taper working against it as well. (Yes I know the beloved prince has a distal taper too, but I don't seem to notice it as much from the pictures I've seen.) If you've made it this far, thank you very much for reading the long end. I want my first battle ready sword to be a good tough sword that I don't have to worry about snapping like a twig if I miss a plastic jug and hit the target stand. -V
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 9:42:12 GMT
Well as a proud owner of a VA Kriegschwert and practical arming sword I can safely say that the new VA line can definately 'do the business'. I can assure you that even though the POB is quite far, the kriegschwert's POB is 6 inches and she still handles well (I was doing some German longsword drills this afternoon). Seeing as the blade type and the construction of the two swords are similar I think I can say that you shouldn't worry about that aspect edit to add:Here's a review by crocket of the Practical Longsword. Note the 'Pro's bit of the review at the end ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 15:16:53 GMT
I have the Black Prince and the Kriegschwert (which is similar to the 304s, from what we can tell). These are two very different swords and which is "better" depends a lot on what you want and prefer. Both have their good points and bad. The Black Prince is a strong, heavy, tough sword. It is made to withstand punishment. The Kriegschwert is a agile, sharp cutter. But there are compromises to be made when designing a sword. The Black Prince is heavy and does not handle nearly as well as the Kriegschwert (and, as I have heard, the 304s). It just does not feel as alive in the hand. It is not a sharpened "crowbar" but it is not agile. To me, the grip is pretty thick. A little thicker than I prefer. Also keep in mind that the BP is a type XV. A sword designed more for the thrust than the cut, so if cutting light targets is your goal, a type XV is not going to cut as well as a type XII (like the Krieg and 304s). It will cut, just not as effortlessly. This is only my experience! I was not happy at all with the edge on my BP. To be honest, it was dull. I was able to slide my hand along the edge without so much as a small scratch. If I did the same with either of my VAs or my Atrim I would have been in the hospital getting stitches. A dull XV is not a good bottle cutter. I could not cut through a bottle at all. I was able smash them, but not cut. I stress that this is only my experience! I have read many accounts of G2s sharp edges and I do think mine was the exception and not the rule. I am trying to sharpen the blade. And while it is sharper, it is not sharp enough yet. Hopefully I will have more time and patience to work on it soon. I also ordered mine through Arms of Valor and Jason is great to deal with. You can't go wrong there. I also had to wait a long time to receive mine...almost 4 months. I got mine with an upgraded hilt from DBK. I hear this is a great upgrade as the original leather is somewhat...lacking. If you go with the BP I would recommend getting this upgrade. I don't have too many negatives against the Kriegschwert. The grip is kinda narrow, so if you have large hands this might be an issue. The Kriegschwert and 304s are not "beaters". They are durable for sure, but less so than the BP. They sacrifice some toughness for lower weight and better handling. So it comes down to preference: If you prefer a tough sword you can "abuse" go with the BP. If you want a better handling sword go with the VAs (Krieg or 304s). I don't have any experience with Darksword but I hear they also make very tough "beater" swords and the Two Handed Gothic has gotten some very good reviews. Atrims are excellent. I love mine. And down the road, I plan on getting more. Something I noticed about the handling of the BP vs the Krieg. The BP has a POB of 4 1/2 inches. The Krieg has a POB of 6 inches. We toss around POB as if it is the end all measure of a swords handling. The above example is the perfect example of why this is just wrong. Without a question, the Krieg handles way better than the BP. I know I'm not making any major revelations here for many people, but I thought this point really should be stressed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 17:39:50 GMT
Thank you both for the replies.
I think I'm gonna go with the Practical Longsword... unless I change my mind =D
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 14, 2009 19:26:26 GMT
If you want a sword for cutting... then nix the DSA Gothic Two Handed Sword. Its an awesome sword, I have one, and I love it... but it is really a dedicated thruster. It can cut, but not very well... its just not built for it. Also... you will have to sharpen it, and its a pain in the butt. I have no experince with Gen 2's Black Prince. I know its very popular, probably their most popular sword, I would bet it has outsold everything else. I know Paul loved his... and his destruction tests with it were very impresive. I'm surprised to hear Chris's was dull... every Gen 2 sword I ever hard was not just sharp, but had a smooth appleseed edge to it without and secondary bevel, which I like. (Chris: Did yours have a nice appleseed edge as well that just did not feel sharp?) Chris is right about the grips... the grips on Gen 2 swords are very plain... you might consider an upgrade. BTW... what is your problem with cord & Leather grips? Lastly... the practical long sword. It will be MUCH more nimble then a Black Prince, I suspect... and decently tough... but I would give the edge in toughness to the BP IMO... bassed on my experince with my Practical Long sword and other VA swords vs other Gen 2 swords... bare in mind tho, I have not handled the BP directly myself. Also, if you have big hands, the Practical Longsword might feel a bit tight in the grip, as mine does for me, but its still a GREAT sword. To date one of if not THE best sword in hand I have cut with was a custom tuned practical Longsword. My standard practical long sword is almost that cool. You might also consider the Hanwei/Tinker longsword... I have no experince with it but some forum members are saying nice things about it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 19:36:15 GMT
I'm not really sure what my suspicions about cord wrapped handles are. I just think that they might fall apart on me.
I had my suspicions about the BP and Gothic being thrusting swords. Usually you don't see a distal taper that pronounced on a cut-n-thrust. I'll go look at the Tinker longsword now to see what I think.
What it basically boils down to is that I need something that will get me thru a zombie apocalypse.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 19:46:18 GMT
Sean, I was surprised too. It had an appleseed edge to it but it was anything but sharp. I first felt it the normal way by running my fingers across the blade. It felt dull. I knew this wasn't the best test so I went out and cut some bottles. For the most part the bottles were burst open but not cut. With lot's of draw and careful alignment I was sometimes able to get a jagged and irregular cut. I'm not the best cutter here but this was bad. I also know type XV's were a bit harder to cut with. But not this bad. I felt the edge again in the same manner and it just felt dull. Not quite Windlass unsharpened dull, but dull. I was so sure it was safe I ran my fingers along the edge. I did not press hard but this would have sliced me to the bone on any of my other swords. Not a mark on me. No cut. No bleeding. Nothing. Days later I tried cutting again. And again. Same results. I have sharpened it a bit in my own bumbling way and it actually cuts bottle now and I think it would cut my fingers if I ran them along the edge as I did before. It is far from "super sharp" but I think I will get it there over time. In comparison I got the Hanwei Dark Sentinel. That came unsharp as most Hanwei non-katana are said to be. But I could cut with that pretty well. I could not run my fingers along the edge without fear of a deep cut. But it was duller than anything else I had (VAs, sharpened Windlass, ATrim). I spent a lot of time sharpening the DS. I actually bought it knowing that the factory edge was not that sharp so I could sharpen it. Now it is one of the sharpest swords I have. But I again say that G2's are known to have good edges and I really think mine was a one off! I only speak of my 1 purchase. Do not take it to be across the boards. editted: Why didn't you say so? That changes everything!!! A type XV is not a good zombie sword! You need a good cutter! A type XII or XIII or even a falchion! Check out the Hanwei/Tinkers and the VA's already discussed and you can't go wrong.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 14, 2009 19:50:51 GMT
Send that Black Prince to Tom... when you get it back, it will split hairs. ;D No, sadly he is not doing any sharpening right now... but with his instructional vids I'm thinking very hard about picking up one of those belt sanders he uses and putting some serious edge to my duller swords.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 20:54:16 GMT
Could you guys post some of the links that you are suggesting? I've looked up the type VII and VIII and I'm assuming it's from the albion line, which will run me about 700 bucks for either. While I do have some disposable income, I don't want to dispose of it all at once =P
Edit: I do remember seeing a falchion some where that looked to be very promising. The reviewer had put it in a vice and bent the thing almost to a 90 degree angle and then went on to chopping a phone book into tiny little pieces. I'll see if I can find the review again.
After watching the review I remember thinking to myself "I'll defiantly be getting that at some point down the line."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2009 22:39:03 GMT
You might want to read the review of the Tinker/Hanwei Great Sword of War (GSOW). It is a type XIIIa, very durable, and a good sword all around. I don't have one personally, which is why you should not take my word for it. Read the review and you will see for yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 0:00:34 GMT
Veldruk, It might be helpful for you to read up on the different types of swords there are out there. That can be a big help is figuring out just what you want. At this link, on the right side of the page is several links leading to the different "Oakeshott Type ... Sword" It makes for an interesting read. www.myarmoury.com/features.htmlFor your needs I would not recommend an Albion just yet. The 304s, I think, would suit you well. And check out the different Tinker/Hanwei offerings.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 0:31:53 GMT
I just got my 304S and opened it up about 30 minutes ago. I haven't been able to swing it around yet, but it looks great.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 2:37:04 GMT
I've decided to go with the 304S Practical Longsword.
I have also decided that it really wont matter as to what type of sword I get because I've opened the floodgates and will be a life long collector of battle ready swords. I figure what good is having a battle ready sword when the zombies come knocking at your door if the sword is on another floor or in another room. So at least a sword per room and probably at least 4 in the living room incase I'm having company over when the zombies show up =D
Thanks for everyone's input on this issue, I'll probably start a new thread when the sword arrives and give it the customary first time buyer review... that is if I don't overswing and lop a leg off and proceed to lose my balance and go rolling down the hill, breaking my phone in the process and putting me 40 yards from the first aid kit... perhaps I'll put a first aid kit at the bottom of the hill. Problem solved.
Edit: But if anyone has a recommendation as to some good "sharpened crowbar" type of swords, I'd be very interested to look at thos as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 2:48:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 2:52:14 GMT
A good choice for one of your first swords, Veldruk
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 11:12:33 GMT
What are you going to cut with your sword, Veldruk?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 11:41:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 18:55:37 GMT
You know... I just now realized that I had started this thread in the wrong forum, as this wasn't in any way related to Fantasy Swords at all... unless, of course, you count my childhood fantasy... There, we will call it that. =D
Edit: (after reading my rambling, just thought I'd let ya know that I don't actually get around to saying what I'm gonna cut until the end)
Well, the plan is to first go down to the local crafts supply shop and pick up some black leather strips to make a temporary stystem to be able to hang the sword by a hook on the wall.
Then I plan on adding a secondary strap system that would allow me to put a "safety" on the blade. It would be nothing more then some straps that I'll either tie to the guard or work a loop around the handle. Just some way to allow me to swing the thing around a few times to feel out the geometry of the thing first. (well, I'll do a couple half powered swings when I first take it out, but nothing that would cost me a limb of course)
Back when I had ordered my first wall hanger I was also into sparring with some friends. We'd get some 1/2" or 3/4" PVC pipe and wrap that in the foam pipe insulation, then wrap all that with duct tape. For about 20 bucks we were able to buy enough material to last us for a few months of hard core sparring. Inevidably they'd break, but as cheap as we were able to buy the stuff, we didn't care. Besides, making them was half the fun =D
But I digress.
After high school I had come across a bokken and a pair of shinai, which I know are for katana training, but they have about the same dimensions as a hand'n-a-half sword, so I've been swinging that around for a few hours each weekend. So I have the muscle memory to successfully not whack myself with tho's, but I don't want to have the mindset that I know what I'm doing with a battle ready sword where with one mistake could leave me 6 feet under.
What I will cut!
As odd as it sounds, I'm gonna give the sword a good rub down and cut some zucchini from my garden. I think it will be an easier cut then plastic bottles and I'll be doing it out in the grass. so as long as I give them a good rinse and boil, they'll still be edible =D
I'll move to plastic bottles for a time after that. I have a friend who drinks way to much soda and I've already made a deal with him for him to save his bottles so we can chop them.
And once pumpkin season is upon us...!!!
I can't wait till everyone starts selling pumpkins around here for a few bucks or so. I think it would be great to do a pumpkin "chip and ring" contest where instead of milk jugs, we use pumpkins. Although, I'm not sure where I would need to bring that idea up. Heck, even trying to carve a jack'o'lantern would be a fun little contest (which I'm probably gonna do anyway, contest or not. Don't worry, my digital camera takes great videos, so I'll be posting a lot.
So to sum it all up, here's my cutting order: -at least 1 zucchini from the garden -an unknown quantity of various sized liquid containing bottles -PUMPKINS -more bottles -And last (read the following paragraph)
I kinda wanna go down to the butcher and see if he can give me a pigs neck or something. Of course, I won't be attempting this until probably next spring, but I'd be curious to see how this sword (and the swords of the future) will handles flesh and bone.
Me, my brother and a few of our friends have started a zombie preparation contest. It's more or less an excuse to buy a bunch of fun things like guns and swords under the pretense that we are doing it to prepare for the upcoming zombie apocalypse. My brother bought a semi automatic shotgun to start us off. So I went out and bought a mossberg 500 12ga, and a HI-Point .45. He hasn't outdone me yet, but I want to secure my lead with at least one sword and a few machetes from trueswords.com
Soooo, the pigs neck would serve as a great test for a "fresh" zombie, and depending on how I have it set up, we'll either have bbq afterwords or shoot the hell outta it with the shotguns. *cheesy grin*
And as a final recap of things I will cut: -Vegtables (Might even find some discounted watermelon this time of year) -Plastic bottles -Pumpkins when they are in season -Maybe some rolled mats, dunno about how serious I'll get with thos -A pig's neck from the butcher
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 20:56:20 GMT
I'm interested to see how the sword you get fares against the pig's neck. I've seen one video already of a Hanwei Albrecht slicing into a pig carcass and decimating it
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 22:41:48 GMT
What do you guys think about using the 304S on a pig's neck? That shouldn't be too abusive, since swords were designed to cut flesh and bone.
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