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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 15:18:11 GMT
Good day to you all. I am new to the forum, but not new to sword collecting. I have many swords in my collection, but as of yet I haven't added a Viking sword. Now is the time. I am fortunate enough to live about 45 minutes away from Kult of Athena, so I go there at my leisure and handle MANY, MANY swords. This has given me the opportunity to handle all Viking swords that KoA has to offer. However, I am interested in purchasing one made of pattern welded steel (PWS), or as many of you know it, Damascus steel. Since there are many Viking blades in museums made of PWS (as I highly doubt true Damascus steel made it all the way to Norway, Sweden,etc), I would like one in my collection made of PWS. Also, I want the ENTIRE blade made of PWS, not just the fuller, or certain "parts" of the sword. There are very few swords made that fit my requirements. One manufacturer that does is Deepeeka. Now, I have read reviews here concerning swords made by this manufacturer, most are not positive. These swords however, are far more expensive than any other swords they make. Most sites that sell Deepeeka Damascus (PWS) Viking swords want around $600 for them. They have three styles. I have found a site that sells them for $348. Needless to say, this price is totally acceptable...........As long as the sword is of reasonable quality.
So my question is this. Is there anyone here that has a Damascus (PWS) Viking sword made by Deepeeka? Please tell me your thoughts on it. Quality? Flexibility? How is the pattern in the steel? What kind of PWS pattern is the blade?
Thank you for your time. I enjoy reading the posts here and if I can ever help someone, I won't hesitate to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 15:46:05 GMT
Dlukej, would you be so kind as to post a link? I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see the pics and info on these. EDIT: quick search found it.. I've been drooling over these same swords at www.realarmorofgod.com for awhile, when I had the money together I was planning to ask who the maker was. Now I'm reconsidering. Ordinarily hearing"deepeeka" send me packing, but these swords look nice,and maybe in the higher pricerange they do something right. Deepeeka isn't known for quality. They look gorgeous in the pictures though.. I would ask the vendor about the hilt construction if I were you, see what they can tell you there. the biggest complaints I've heard about Deepeeka have been weak tangs and questionable hilt construction.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 16:01:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 16:25:02 GMT
I've wanted a damascus viking sword for a long time and have also looked at the deepeka ones on the armour of god site,especially the white bone handled one.BTW where did you find them for $348.00. I have been looking for one that museum replicas used to carry 10 years ago ( the sword of Aettartangi) for around $600.00 but I still cant find one. Darksword now has an option on their viking swords for a damascus blade,very nice blades but $900.00. I actually took a chance on an ebay damascus sword and so far I'm real happy with it especially the way it looks. link to my review. /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=10951 I believe there is still one like it for sale but with a different pommel and guard,I'm not exactly sure it's the exact same blade but the description is the same although a different seller mine is beautiful. cgi.ebay.com/HAND-MADE-DAMASCUS-SWORD-DAMASCUS-CELTIC-VIKING-SWORD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem518ab7e2b8QQitemZ350219657912QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 3, 2009 18:05:47 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean by wanting the "entire sword" to be pattern-welded, rather than "just the fuller," as if the fuller is...the whole blade is. It just happens that most viking-type swords tend to polish the bevels of the blade a good bit more than the fuller, so the pattern fades somewhat. Similar to how some Japanese katana had burnished shinogi, or even entire blades. They were still folded/laminated/whatever, but you couldn't really tell by looking. I personally prefer the Hanwei Godfred, Windlass Loiten, or even the Windlass Damascus Viking Sword, and several others, though this is primarily because Deepeeka doesn't really hold to a terribly "functional" reputation. Their stuff might look pretty, but the majority of it handles poorly and isn't cut out for...cutting... I imagine the greater expense in these particular pieces is not so much due to superior craftsmanship (ie. functional swords) as it is a sign of the pattern welding and perhaps the furniture's actual cost. Of course, it's practically impossible to say, with those horrid photos... My experience is that typically, the good swords have lots of pictures, in high resolution, with plenty of close-ups. The bad swords all have one very small, very fuzzy picture.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 19:34:22 GMT
H.R Ellis Davidson's "The sword in Anglsaxon England" shows just how a Viking era welded patterned sword was made, citing several examples from England, Denmark, Norway and Sweden,
The center fuller is the part of the sword that was twisted to make the neat patterns, the edges were straight, not twisted, so having the whole sword twisted is not historically corect......SanMarc.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 3, 2009 20:20:02 GMT
Okay so we'll go with that. So much for the stuff I've read from manufacturers; I should know better. Anyway, knew it was only the fuller, typically. ... .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 22:24:31 GMT
I think both might be correct. There was a lot of ways to make a blade in viking age. There are even some from many thin, long bars welded together through entire width of the blade.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 22:37:53 GMT
I agree with Luka. I made a paper about viking swords and pattern welding (and got a pretty good mark for it, I may add ). The small metal rods could be twisted and welded together in many different ways, and swords were forged by many different smiths, each with their own method, often tinkered and changed at each sword forged ... I would also add that I read that smiths didn't always share their knowledge with each other. Except, maybe, on a father-to-son basis ...
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Post by hotspur on Jul 3, 2009 23:39:58 GMT
Confessions of a bladesmith; secrets revealed! (Finished Pictures added)www.vikingsword.com/Look for the "Serpent in the sword" (and others) in the Online Library there. Also worth browsing, are the old original SFMO editions from 1999 swordforum.com/magazine/Ironically (or not) Viking Sword was my online introduction to western swords. The Highlander forum became a basis for Sword Forum about the time Wizard and other wandered over to create NetSword. I keep losing my links for the old archives there (Wiz modified the site but the stuff is still served). A chat session with Paul Chen of Hanwei, some of the old Gus Trim sword reviews. Ah, here they are. www.netsword.com/features.htmlwww.netsword.com/weapontest.htmlIn the index of that forum itself are Gus' thoughts on the Godfred back in '99. The leaf blade on the table there was made by Kevin Cashen. Actually, all four are Cashen. Here is Kevin's site. He and some other top flight smiths do turn up at the metallurgy section of Sword Forum Vince Evans has done a good bit of pattern welding, as has Jake Powning and his early association with Al Massey, who is around and available, just not very advertised. There are some of the American continent giants at the better swords and traditional pattern welding processes. What passes for a damascus viking (no matter how pretty) in the general publics eye is a bit of fools gold. Don't get me wrong. I own a Godfred and even bought a second blade when the first broke. What they are not is anything but a bit of glitz. The Albions from Viking Shield, the squire line from Albion; both come in the cost range that seems feasible for some. Step up to a Shifford from A&A (some day, I will) or a next generation Albion. What is the term? Casting pearls to swine? Darksword "damascus"? I'll try to be gentle in just not going there. Cheers Hotspur; The smiths listed above are what one might consider as open to the public view
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 1:40:41 GMT
When trying to show examples of the hole patterned swords from the viking era, the most that have been found had straight edges and not twisted, very few had the edges twisted like very few had sharpened tips, so most people see the fuller twisted and not the edges and the points blunt not sharp......SanMarc.
Back on track, the swords are still nice and that one that was on Evilbay for $89!! can be made into a realy cool sword!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 15:43:48 GMT
I haven't seen the Deepeeka Damascus Viking swords in person, but the other Deepeeka Viking swords aren't very good. Poor temper and blade heavy. I consider them more for display or costume. It's interesting that those damascus ones have been around for a number of years now and I've never seen one reviewed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 15:52:50 GMT
I believe if you search around on some of the sword forums you can find a way to bring the pattern out on the whole blade of a Godfred. The pattern is just polished out and I remember reading about a way to bring the pattern back.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 16:18:50 GMT
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts.
Randomnobody- Yes, what I meant was that I want the whole BLADE (I should have been more specific) to be made of, and have the pattern of, PWS. The reason I say this is because, in handling of these swords, and talking to merchants, some of these swords have PWS only in the fuller. Case in point-the Hanwei Godfred. I was told, by a sword merchant that sells Hanwei, that only the fuller is PWS. The reason I tend to believe this is that, when closely examining the blade, you cannot see any pattern in the steel other than in the fuller. I realize that the edges have been polished, but it seems to me that no degree of polishing could completely wipe away all traces of the pattern welding. I suppose what I should do, is just fire off an e-mail to Hanwei and get the answer to this straight from the horses mouth. I have heard the same regarding the Windlass Damascus sword, that only the fuller section of the blade is PWS.................
Also, I totally agree with your assessment of the pics. Not even Deepeeka's website has good pictures of these swords. Which make me very leery when it comes to actually purchasing one. Hence, this thread!...........................
sanmarc- I lived in Northern Germany for three years. I have personally seen Viking swords (in museums, from the period) of PWS that have the pattern throughout the blade.....right up to the cutting edge. But I have also seen them without the pattern on the edge as well. I believe they were made both ways, depending on time period, and the smiths personal style......However, there seem to be far more (that have survived to this day) that do not have the pattern to the edge......
Thanks to all for your input. It seems I cannot find anyone who actually owns one of these Deepeeka swords...Maybe that is the answer I am looking for..............
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 4, 2009 16:22:58 GMT
I believe if you search around on some of the sword forums you can find a way to bring the pattern out on the whole blade of a Godfred. The pattern is just polished out and I remember reading about a way to bring the pattern back. A few wipes with vinegar (or some harder stuff if you like) should bring it right back out. I personally prefer the polished bevels with the patterned fuller but those of you who don't, just etch the blade. I have a hard time imagining any forge would simply "install" pattern welded steel into non-pattern-welded edging. It'd be damn near impossible for starters... And yes, it is quite possible (and not difficult) to polish away patterns. See those burnished shinogi I mentioned earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 16:33:15 GMT
I agree, I don't think you could make the sword with only the fuller pattern welded. I believe all the mass produced swords are made from blocks of damascus steel. I believe if you search around on some of the sword forums you can find a way to bring the pattern out on the whole blade of a Godfred. The pattern is just polished out and I remember reading about a way to bring the pattern back. A few wipes with vinegar (or some harder stuff if you like) should bring it right back out. I personally prefer the polished bevels with the patterned fuller but those of you who don't, just etch the blade. I have a hard time imagining any forge would simply "install" pattern welded steel into non-pattern-welded edging. It'd be damn near impossible for starters... And yes, it is quite possible (and not difficult) to polish away patterns. See those burnished shinogi I mentioned earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 17:42:16 GMT
Hmmmmm. That's very interesting.. I never thought about taking an acidic compound, such as vinegar, to bring back the pattern. Have you actually tried this? How does it look?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2009 18:59:10 GMT
Again I refer to H.R.Ellis Davidson's "The sword in anglosaxon England" It shows you how it can be done, with pics for those that dont want to read the whole book, putting solid edges on the PWS fuller center is very possible and has been done in the Viking era and in modern times.
Most modern swords are made with one billet of "Damascus" PWS steel, and not made like the smiths in Viking times did.
.....................SanMarc.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 5, 2009 15:47:41 GMT
Again I refer to H.R.Ellis Davidson's "The sword in anglosaxon England" It shows you how it can be done, with pics for those that dont want to read the whole book, putting solid edges on the PWS fuller center is very possible and has been done in the Viking era and in modern times. Most modern swords are made with one billet of "Damascus" PWS steel, and not made like the smiths in Viking times did. .....................SanMarc. Well, for clarification, I was referring primarily to modern pieces done on the cheap. I have no doubt that in the olden days somebody figured out how to do it, much like how the Chinese and later Japanese developed their own lamination techniques. I just highly, VERY highly, doubt that, say, Windlass or Hanwei use these methods, thus, somebody's info is flawed somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2009 5:14:58 GMT
Hmmm? could be, but with very cheap labor, It can be done, I had a Hanway Damascus Godfred sword, and the center is piled and the edges are straight steel, don't know about the windlass.....SanMarc.
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