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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 18:41:20 GMT
So as is common knowledge I am a n00b when it comes to sword collecting ,and for that matter a n00b to sword knowledge though since youth I have been in love with swords to as many of my friends would say a ridiculous extent, they even called me various nick names about swords in grade 9 and I had an awesome necklace with a falchion on it any ways I have two swords thus far(the Hanwei Practical Ninjato, Hanwei Katsumushi Limited Edition) as well as a combat knife and throwing knives I have already picked my 3rd sword out Musha 1060 Katana in Musashi Theme they are all lovely japanese swords, and once i have them I will be looking for a western sword
I know very little about wester swords and was hoping i could recieve some advice > first of all i dont understand the whole type X blade type J pommel etc babel what is that ? > second I have several choices im leaning towards and out of them what would people recomend ( I am limited to only buying what is available at reliks because I don't feel comfortable ordering things online and reliks actual store is only45minutes from my home) The swords I am looking at ( In no particular order ) include (but are not limited to) I would preferably like something that is One handed as my prefered style of combat would involve a sword and sheild (otherwise I would totally just get the lowlander cause its intense)
+Valiant armory Castile Base Model +Valiant armory Angus Trim Practical Arming Sword +Tinker Early Medieval Sword-Sharp +Darksword Medieval knight +(this one is above 300 dollars but still VERY tempting Valiant armory Bristol Signature Edition Sword
I may get one or more of these swords, but I would like any advice people can offer on these or other swords I could possibly buy for the sub (or around) 300$ price Preferably available at reliks.com
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 18:49:29 GMT
Any of the swords that you listed are good. The one thing that you MAY not like about the Darksword Knight is the fact that it is kind of heavy for a one handed sword, kn my opinion. If I were you, I would get the practical arming sword, but that's just me. Like I said, all of the listed swords are good for their price, the one that just stands out the most to me is the DSA knight, due to it's weight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 18:55:16 GMT
hairu hey, welcome to the Western side of the sword world! You should check out the Reviews section here on SBG; all of those swords have been reviewed I believe; I have the VA Practical arming sword (custom-tuned version tho) - any of the Signature Line or Base Practical Line swords are modeled off of Angus Trim blades and Christian Fletcher-designed furniture, mounts, trim and scabbard...you really can't go wrong there for a total package.
Edited for spelling, ugh.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 19:07:56 GMT
The weight on the medieval knight is not a huge issue as I am fairly physically capable and i might enjoy the challenge I would especially enjoy the knight after watching pauls destructive tests. The Arming sword seems a little skinny for my tastes but I like it for its afford ability, and it got a great review. My main concern is whether or not they come sharp as Im not looking towards sharpening a sword myself. Ive read all of the reviews I'm just looking for a little more comparative opinion. I am leaning towards the castile because I really like its overall style and love that it comes with a scabbard and belt. But my favourite looking sword is definitely the bristol (thought its a little more expensive)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 19:15:35 GMT
If you really want a sharp sword, I don't advise that you get the Knight sword. You can choose the sharpening option, but I don't know what the quality of the sharpening service is. It might put a secondary bevel on the sword. If you want a razor sharp sword that you don't have to sharpen a lot yourself, I suggest that you get one of the Valiant Armory swords (the arming sword, the castile, the bristol). And as a bonus, you get a nice scabbard, and if you get the signature versions (the castile, bristol) you get a belt too. So all in all, the VA packages are really good deals for the price. I have never handled a DSA sword though, so the sharpening option that you get could actually be good. I just have not heard much about it. Don't rush your decision though, take time to make up your mind.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 1, 2009 19:23:13 GMT
Hairusan Yokuso de gozaimasu! feel at home yet?
the type babel that has you confused is based off of the research and writings of famed sword historian Oakeshott who developed a system of classification for swords. think of it like shinogi zukuri vs Shobu zukuri or unokubi zukuri in Japanese swords. the type of a sword relates to it's geometry and primary function. Oakeshott (or someone else maybe) also categorized the types of pommels, cross guards, and general furniture for European swords. I don't have a chart handy but I know there's one over at Albion's website and you could google "Oakeshott typeology" and find some good info.
as far as the swords you listed:
in my opinion the DSA and the Castile are both too heavy to be fun to swing. in fact if you click over to youtube and look up my account (ianflaer) you will find a video called "testing the extra sharp Castile" in that video you can see the weight of the sword bother my shoulder and cause me some discomfort. I wouldn't say this would be a porblem for most people but I had a messed up shoulder that day from a dojo accident. either way that sword is still way too heavy for me to enjoy swinging. I haven't ever touched the DSA Knight but I'm cautious of swords that heavy. I don't like them.
as for the AT 303s Practical Arming sword, I have one (Custom tuned version) and I LOVE it. I have many videos depicting it. pretty much any video called "sword and shield - (anything)" or "Medieval Tameshigiri" or anything like that will have that sword in it.
I have never touched a Bristol, but I would love to. I've heard great things about them and they look dead sexy.
I've heard good things about the Tinker/Hanwei swords too but they lose out to the V.A./Atrim swords in one very important category: Edge Sharpness and geometry out of the box. the V.A. swords (not the Castile it's edge is poor) have a great geometry edge and sharpness right out of the box. even a confirmed edge-snob such as myself can pick one up right out of the box and be happy cutting with it. the Tinker/Hanwei swords from what I hear are plagued with secondary bevels and dullness. they may have corrected this issue by now but I would research deeply before getting one of those, OR be ready to sharpen it yourself.
in the end I vote V.A. Practical Arming if you want a good strong cutter.
or
V.A. Bristol if you want a little more agile sword wit quickness, better thrusting, and sexier design.
Bristol has the Beauty, Practical Arming has the Brawn. both are good swords and I can personally vouch for the Arming sword. I love mine.
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Post by hotspur on Jul 1, 2009 21:00:26 GMT
A nice page for understanding the terminology and typologies is the myArmoury feature site. www.myarmoury.com/features.htmlFrom XVIIIc to O type pommels, there are examples to investigate there. Form a serious browser of Japanese type swords, it was a couple of years of looking at the market before I made a decision in buying my first western type sword. The market has ballooned since the '90s and it can make for a tough decision for any. I would suggest taking your time and tehn narrowing to a list of fewer than half a dozen, then think about not just what appeals but what your real expectaions of that first sword will be. In the end, one is going to attract your interest more than any others. Books are great too but they tend to be an afterthought. That feature site is an example of at least trying to present the basics from books on a single page. Oh yes, I was also recalling one of my very early bookmarks regarding all thoughts medieval. A portal in and of itself. www.sirclisto.comCheers Hotspur; my first western sword is a recreation of the espada ropera pictured in Oakeshott's tomes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 22:49:37 GMT
Iould take Castille base model, because I like the type X blade and I like heavier swords. I had both lighter and heavier swords and I found out that I like cuttiing with heavier swords better. You can't know what will you prefer before you try out a few different models. My favorite cutter right now is Del Tin 2130 St.Maurice which is a 1.45kg singlehander. I'm short and not very strong, but I just feel good cutting with heavier swords. Maybe you'll take it as a challenge, I'm just more comfortable with them. So if you want heavier sword you take Castille, if you want light sword, practical arming sword. I have no experience with shortswords like Bristol so I won't comment on it.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 1, 2009 23:23:42 GMT
wow, here we have another example of difference of opinion/perspective. I would in no way call the Practical Arming sword light, in fact I'd say it was medium to heavy. especially considering it's almost six inch balance point. however, I understand the new generation is quite a bit lighter, so maybe the new ones are light but certainly not the old.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 0:11:28 GMT
Well, compared to Del Tins... they are.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 1:32:01 GMT
Well, compared to Del Tins... they are. SOME del tins...not all del tins are overweight. Anyways, I personally would get the bristol because I like the XVI over the X or XII (well the DSA isn't even a XII...but I'm clumping as a XII for now) blade of the others. As for the weight issue...don't assume just because your strong it's okay. Being over weight builds bad habits. It makes you do things improperly even if you are strong enough to swing the sword all day long. Proper weight and balance are especially important for new people.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 1:32:16 GMT
yikes! Del Tin must make anti-tank swords. to each his own I guess. thanks for the info, I'll look carefully at anything Del Tin before I buy as I have a very specific weight limit to what I like in swords.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 1:38:39 GMT
Yeah, Del Tins can be very different, some are overweight, some are even lighter than originals that inspired them were. My 2130 and 2142 are a bit heavy, but still well in the historical range. It's all about what an individual prefers.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 2:08:03 GMT
well it seems our OP belives he could handle a heavier sword so I guess that's not an issue. and I understand what you are saying Luka, I have a good buddy who likes his swords heavy so much so he thinks the Castile is a medium to light weight. then again he's like 6'3" and built like fantasy barbarian. he's a big strong boy so heavy works for him.
now our OP has mentioned that he is very concerned about the sword being sharp enough and THAT is going to narrow the field down a lot in my opinion. I would his listed swords sharpness as follows:
DSA: I don't know their knight sword but they come unsharpened and I have seen the effects of their sharpening service = huge secondary bevel, BUT I have to say one of the two I saw had an edge that was somewhat serviceable. not GOOD, but serviceable.
Castile: terrible edge unless you get an extra sharp version then, kinda ok. better than what I've seen of DSA's sharpening but still not what I would consider good.
V.A. Practical arming: FANTASTIC! right out of the box good to go goodness. I can't say enough about how RIGHT V.A. got these.
V.A. Bristol: Sonny has assured us that all the rest of the signature models (other than Castile) will have the same edge as the Practicals and every opinion I have heard from forumites supports that. if this is the sword you really like then it has it all. go for it.
Tinker Early Medieval Sword: I really don't know much about this one but all the indications I have say it suffers from an edge as bad as the regular Castile. meaning terrible. I have no experience with this sword first hand though so things may be different.
The benefit our OP has is that he is going to go to the Reliks store to get his sword. he has it narrowed down to a few good choices so why not just prepare financially to but the Bristol (since it is the most expensive of the list) and go have a look you can make up your mind right there.
if it were me, I'd get the Bristol. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 2:32:15 GMT
Well the EM sword that tinker got from hanwei had a proper edge according to him. Course this was the ONLY model so far to have a proper edge . And who knows if all the EM sword have the right edge or just some of them. Hanwei's edge history suggest that you should be ready for a disapointment. Yeah if a good edge is a must, the bristol and the arming sword are the real two top runners.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 2:46:07 GMT
exactly, and if he goes to the store and looks at an EM sword and sees that it has a good edge with no secondary bevel then he can jump that one up into contention with V.A.'s Bristol and Practical Arming. being able to look at and hold the sword before you buy is a huge plus in my book.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 4:19:19 GMT
My Tinker Viking is the sword of my dreams ......... nearly ......... I've developed such a mixed love with this blade its almost a dramatic romance.
The hilt is so sweet, but I will change the handle soon cause I got little mouse paws and need a thinner grip, the blade is just perfection, nearly like an Albion my goodness, my hat off to the little Chinese bloke that hammered and ground mine, if I could meet him I'd buy him drinks all night.
To the bloke that sharpened it afterwards ........ he gets one drink and THATS IT!!! ......... The edge is at times an enigma to me with bottle cutting. Even feeling the edge with with my finger tips, gazing apon it, cradling it in my lap in thoughtful repose I still cant fathom why at points it wont cut a bottle but sometimes ........ if I do it just right ........ it will cleanly slice paper .......... and sometimes not ........ its not the best edge to produce bottle severing results everytime ....... But its weight, taper, flex, temper ........ oooooooooo all so good, great balance and for a viking Type X thats really saying something ........ might not be the penultimate BOTTLESWORD ........ but BABY!! ....... this ones my WARSWORD!!!!! .........
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 2, 2009 4:44:21 GMT
Hm... Well... I have a VA Practical Arming sword and a VA Signature Bristol sword... and they are VERY different weapons... I would not think someone would be thinking about getting one or the other, because they are so different. The arming sword is a very nice single handed sword... for the money, its going to be REALLY tough to beat. Great edge out of the box, good weight and balance, an all around decent sword. The Bristol is really a short sword. It's quick yet stout, but it does not give you much reach... I love it, but I would not compare a short sword an an arming sword. Looks like our new friend Jonathan is taking up the slack for Slayer... ;D Are you not still trying to decide what to buy for your first sword(s)... but you are offering advice on which swords would be better to buy without having handled any of them yet? Enthusiasm is good... but taper it a bit with restraint... least you offer advice you are not sure of because it is not from your personal experience.
Of the swords the OP is interested in... I'd go with a Bristol or Practical.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 4:45:39 GMT
That's because for some reason hanwei uses 80 grit to sharpen their western swords...with a secondary bevel. Lately that have been going too steep vs not steep enough as well...which is why you can shave paper if you don't catch it on a jag left on the edge because it's a bloody 80 grit edge.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 5:19:50 GMT
well I did talk to chris from reliks and he says I could get the castile sharpened if need be so its edge may not be an issue and I do realize the vast difference between the arming sword and the bristol, I kind of like the bristol better because a short sword would be very nice to handle, from my expirience with Wooden swords I have always preferred a short sword Im still not overly concerned worried about the weight, because I think that It is something I would be able to work past if it was an issue and if not than I will atleast have learned a valuable lesson about my personal sword preference
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