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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 1:28:44 GMT
ok let's not turn this into a bash-fest that won't help anyone.
herbertwest, what you are seeing here is frustration because we want to help you and we want you to be safe and we want you to be happy with whatever sword you do get.
we love swords here, we are passionate about them, and when you come here asking for advice we want to help you enjoy a sword. unfortunately there are a lot of swords out there that just are not worth buying and it can be really hard to tell the difference, BUT THAT IS WHY SBG EXISTS! if you don't let us help you then you've wasted your time and ours by asking.
also, please don't feel like you have to settle for an unacceptable sword simply because your budget is small, this too is a reason we are here.
we can understand wanting to get a good sword but not wishing to spend a lot on it.
my advice is look for bargains at the windlass site and be patient, something will come up that will be more than worth the wait. also keep your eyes on our classifieds.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 1:32:59 GMT
Because a machete is a tool designed to chop green wood. A sword is designed to chop up a person. VERY different things. What are some of the pertinent design differences? Also even long dead bone, which is harder then living bone, shatters pretty easily So does porcelain. Would you like to hit that with a sword? How about if I wrap it in a nice tenderloin? ...after which the soft tissue surrounding the bone absorbs any energy the bone shards may have that would seriously damage a sword. No, it really doesn't. Actually, that statement doesn't make much physical sense at all. If you were to chop a bone without the soft tissue, then yes dead bone can damage a sword and it's about as dangerous as cutting glass with a sword(and yes this is a great big no no). Green wood last I checked lacks soft tissue. The presence or absence of soft tissue does nothing but slow the blade down before it hits bone. The effect of a blade moving at a certain speed through soft tissue as it hits bone is identical to the effect of a blade moving at the same speed and hitting bare bone. After the blade has hit bone, the surrounding tissue has no effect on the blade other than to slow it down even more as it continues to travel and after all the effects of hitting bone have already occurred.. There may not be a better way to explain it to you. Honestly though, if your gonna treat a sword like a machete, don't get a sword. Save the 140 bucks and get a machete. No offense, but you obviously have no idea what a sword is. It's not an axe or a machete to chop up wood with...it's a weapon design for the sole purpose of killing another person as effectively as possible(barring specialized swords...like for stage combat or training). If your not gonna respect this aspect of a sword, you should seriously reconsider getting one before you hurt yourself or others. As for getting a beater...umm you don't consider the VA a beater?!? What the heck did you waste your money on?!? Because if it's even beefer then a over 4 lb one hander sword, I'm sorry, but you just wasted your money something fierce. Why would I consider something I couldn't actually beat on to be a beater? My beater is simply made of better steel with a superior heat treat. It utilizes a full tang construction with a riveted micarta handle. It weighs about 2 pounds. If you really like how the VA looks...go for it. It's money for sonny...but don't expect much onlooker to be very impressed if they even have any incling of what a sword is beyond what they see on TV. Is that why you buy swords? To impress onlookers?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 1:39:44 GMT
ok let's not turn this into a bash-fest that won't help anyone. herbertwest, what you are seeing here is frustration because we want to help you and we want you to be safe and we want you to be happy with whatever sword you do get. we love swords here, we are passionate about them, and when you come here asking for advice we want to help you enjoy a sword. unfortunately there are a lot of swords out there that just are not worth buying and it can be really hard to tell the difference, BUT THAT IS WHY SBG EXISTS! if you don't let us help you then you've wasted your time and ours by asking. also, please don't feel like you have to settle for an unacceptable sword simply because your budget is small, this too is a reason we are here. we can understand wanting to get a good sword but not wishing to spend a lot on it. my advice is look for bargains at the windlass site and be patient, something will come up that will be more than worth the wait. also keep your eyes on our classifieds. I understand how difficult my price point makes it to recommend anything of acceptable quality. I appreciate the suggestions I have received. The more I look at the Windlass line the more I like it. Do they run specials on their site often? What I really need is someone to sell a used, sharpened Windlass to fund an upgrade. I will try to monitor the classified section. Do any other sword forums have active classified sections?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 1:50:34 GMT
myarmoury has.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 2, 2009 1:51:22 GMT
yes, myarmory does as does SFI but Myarmory tends to be higher end from what I've seen and SFI I think still has a lock out on new memberships. I'm sure there's others maybe swords of might but I don't know them. I have no idea how often Windlass has deals but most sellers put stuff on discount fairly regularly. also you could call their customer service/sales people and talk to them because sometimes there is stuff available that is not list on the web. there's also a new website opening up that is mentioned in the SBG news letter, I haven't been there yet or even read the full article but it sounds promising. Paul seems jazzed up about the place anyway, and that's usually good news.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 2:15:43 GMT
A machete has a much thicker spine and a balance much more foward compared to blade length then a sword.
As for bone...umm okay get 2 nice sharp hollow ground kitchen knife and some chicken tighs. Peel the bone and try chopping the bone with one knife and through the whole thing with another. You will find that just the bone does WAY more damage then through the whole tight. Get a wooden dowel. Try cutting the dowel by itself and compare to one that is wrapped in a tatami mat. Soft tissue absorbs and redirects vibrations. It's not just about power.
As for your beater...
Umm the VA IS a beater because beating on it pretty much all you CAN do with it. As for better steel and HT...how do you know if you never seen the VA's HT...and do you even know what steel they use? Besides which if you must mention it is full tang, that is usually a bad sign as it is ASSUMED that a functional sword already has this(usualy this is mentioned because a sword is so badly made it must be pointed out). And finally riveted micarta handles aren't the best choice for a beater. Actually they aren't good choices for swords in general as micarata is pretty good at deadening your primary harmonics node...which in turn will vibrate your handle into oblivion unless done VERY carefully...unless your spending custom sword money however, I don't think your gonna get that. Basically that handle makes me think you may have been bamboozled. But hey when you get it, feel free to share and review the piece. If you have a link to whoever is making this piece, I would be interested actually (I like micarata handles alot and if they can do a good one, it peaks my interest). I honestly hope you haven't been taken in by a shady marketing ploy...but like I said, the handle worries me....
As for why I collect swords, I collect them because I like the history of them...and yes I would like it if somebody saw one of my sword and said how nice it looked over laughing at it. Do you collect swords to be laughed at? But that is neither here nor there...if you really like how it looks, I'll concede that what anyone else thinks of what the sword looks like doesn't really matter. However the rest of the objectional nature of the sword still stands...especially for your intended use.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 2:24:42 GMT
I understand how difficult my price point makes it to recommend anything of acceptable quality. I appreciate the suggestions I have received. The more I look at the Windlass line the more I like it. Do they run specials on their site often? What I really need is someone to sell a used, sharpened Windlass to fund an upgrade. I will try to monitor the classified section. Do any other sword forums have active classified sections? Museum replica as daily specials so you can check it out daily...quite a good marketing tool actually. www.museumreplicas.com/default.aspxand click on the deal of the day...well daily . Generally speaking, their deal of the day is a pretty nice deal (generally half normal price...which is about 30% lower the what KoA sells for).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 3:13:16 GMT
A machete has a much thicker spine and a balance much more foward compared to blade length then a sword. Not necessarily, no. Some do, some do not. As for bone...umm okay get 2 nice sharp hollow ground kitchen knife and some chicken tighs. Peel the bone and try chopping the bone with one knife and through the whole thing with another. You will find that just the bone does WAY more damage then through the whole tight. Get a wooden dowel. Try cutting the dowel by itself and compare to one that is wrapped in a tatami mat. Soft tissue absorbs and redirects vibrations. It's not just about power. It has nothing to do with vibration. It has to do with the speed of impact. Nothing else. As for your beater... Umm the VA IS a beater because beating on it pretty much all you CAN do with it. As for better steel and HT...how do you know if you never seen the VA's HT...and do you even know what steel they use? You could call it an inference. There are a finite number of production carbon steels VA could use and they are all pretty much inferior to this steel in most aspects. As far as the heat treat, it is part of what has made this company's products rise so far above the rest in many applications. I would hedge my bet in their favor in any situation. That may be a little fanboyish, but experience and observation are what they are. Besides which if you must mention it is full tang, that is usually a bad sign as it is ASSUMED that a functional sword already has this(usualy this is mentioned because a sword is so badly made it must be pointed out). Most of the swords so highly prized on this forum do not have a full tang. They have a full length tang. There is a big difference. The best examples of a real full tang design that you might be familiar with can be seen in something like a quality katana. Even that would still be categorized as a hidden tang design. A true full tang would be the width of the blade at it's widest point and extend the entire length of the handle. And finally riveted micarta handles aren't the best choice for a beater. Actually they aren't good choices for swords in general as micarata is pretty good at deadening your primary harmonics node...which in turn will vibrate your handle into oblivion unless done VERY carefully I wouldn't worry about damaging micarta. I would prefer resiprene-C, but that wasn't an option at this time. G10 was, and it was tempting, but even textured G10 feels more slippery to me than micarta. If you have a link to whoever is making this piece, I would be interested actually (I like micarata handles alot and if they can do a good one, it peaks my interest). I honestly hope you haven't been taken in by a shady marketing ploy...but like I said, the handle worries me.... Its one of the only companies I would trust my life to. This a waki style blade made of a differentially heat treated steel similar to 52100 before processing. Better models can be had made of a proprietary steel called INFI.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 3:45:54 GMT
sigh....... what is a herbertwest, sounds like a breed of salmon ........ anyway .......
Yep windlass are good for the price, old VA stuff creates a passionate discussion and flames aplenty whenever spoken, new VA goes the other way and talked about like the second coming (which is good their good stuff) ......... save your money for a bit longer, you do get dollars regularly dont you ??......... some type of income??
You dont have to save 500 or a grand but saving up to say the 200-250 mark would serve you SO WELL with choices and reliability. Alot of us have been there and we just want to play parent and give you the oppurtunity we never had to make the right decisions (WOW so sound like my dad then). You dont want to get some Deepeeka pregnant ............ kay .........
I feel it should be said, one should treat a sword as a loaded handgun when it comes to safety, in fact sometimes it demands more respect, a handgun without a bullet is just a lump of metal and mechanics that would at worst bruise your toe if it fell on it, drop a sword out of its scabbard on your toe ...... bye bye toe, bye bye chunk of foot (hey you can see how well it cuts bone then).
A gun instructor would likely tell you a long list of does and donts with a firearm, you dont get as much pro advice when getting a sword, I'm surprised all swords dont come with a short manual of does and donts, in this great world of plastic bags and babies heads etc etc. But responsibility begins with ones self. Again more advice people will try and impart.
Can this Desert Eagle .50AE or .44 Magnum shoot off this padlock, yeah maybe, probably,its powerfull but for the love of god dont use a gun to shoot a lock off a gate, its kinda like that and the hitting trees and 2 x 4's with a blade, its abusive use, its dangerous, plain silly and the realm to the douchebag not the gentleman ........
But if something had grabbed you, if you find you look at it on the web at least once a day, get it, REALLLY get it ....... you will then learn if its a dissapointment, or the love of your life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 3:57:38 GMT
sigh....... what is a herbertwest, sounds like a breed of salmon ........ anyway ....... He's the Re-animator, man. He brings the dead back to life!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 4:39:39 GMT
Okay, that doesn't look like a sword. It looks to be an overbuilt cross between a wak and a bolo machete. The reason micarta doesn't get destroyed in a blade like that is because your primary node is outside the hilt area by a fair margin (and it's a fine choice for smaller blades as there is less issues with harmonics in shorter blades). Their knives look pretty good but I distrust proprietary alloy. Generally speaking, it's a gimik to charge 10x what the item is actually worth(not that they do so since I have no idea what they cost). Basically, that's not a sword...it's a very nice, very expensive machete(I assume it costs more then 20 bucks). Use that for chopping wood to your hearts content as it looks like what that was designed for and not a sword.
As for the video demo...yeah kinda neat to see...but I do the same things using my cold steel bolo machete that costs 14 bucks.
And finally, if you really don't wanna believe that soft tissue plays a HUGE role in weapon design, fine whatever...believe what you will, you obviously really dont wanna listen and somehow think force is everything. If you don't wanna listen to our warning about the danger of using a sword to hack at trees, fine do what you want. We aren't your parents, we aren't your guardians. Do what you want...but don't expect us to applaud you for ignoring what is considered by this community to be very basic safety issues. Don't expect us to accept you when you flaunt reckless behavior.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 4:45:06 GMT
sigh....... what is a herbertwest, sounds like a breed of salmon ........ anyway ....... Could you seriously be this badly off? Yep windlass are good for the price, old VA stuff creates a passionate discussion and flames aplenty whenever spoken, new VA goes the other way and talked about like the second coming (which is good their good stuff) ......... save your money for a bit longer, you do get dollars regularly dont you ??......... some type of income?? Yeah, I do. To me that means I can buy something to amuse myself with now and upgrade to something else later. Yes, that might mean I have a $150 sword and a $250 sword instead of a $400 sword. I'm ok with that. In fact, I enjoy variety. I would rather have 20 knives than one $1000 knife. I would rather have 20 various muscle cars and hot rods than one Ferrari. I thoroughly enjoy my 3 pistols much more than I would enjoy one Python. Some people enjoy variety. You dont have to save 500 or a grand but saving up to say the 200-250 mark would serve you SO WELL with choices and reliability. Alot of us have been there and we just want to play parent and give you the oppurtunity we never had to make the right decisions (WOW so sound like my dad then). You dont want to get some Deepeeka pregnant ............ kay ......... LOL I hear you. I feel it should be said, one should treat a sword as a loaded handgun when it comes to safety, in fact sometimes it demands more respect, a handgun without a bullet is just a lump of metal and mechanics that would at worst bruise your toe if it fell on it, drop a sword out of its scabbard on your toe ...... bye bye toe, bye bye chunk of foot (hey you can see how well it cuts bone then). A gun instructor would likely tell you a long list of does and donts with a firearm, you dont get as much pro advice when getting a sword, I'm surprised all swords dont come with a short manual of does and donts, in this great world of plastic bags and babies heads etc etc. But responsibility begins with ones self. Again more advice people will try and impart. Can this Desert Eagle .50AE or .44 Magnum shoot off this padlock, yeah maybe, probably,its powerfull but for the love of god dont use a gun to shoot a lock off a gate, its kinda like that and the hitting trees and 2 x 4's with a blade, its abusive use, its dangerous, plain silly and the realm to the douchebag not the gentleman ........ I have knives more dangerous in this respect than a lot of swords. I'm not looking for A Christmas Story. Sure, I could shoot my eye out. But when I ask about the capabilities of a sword, I am completely unmoved by some people saying, "Yeah, it will go through that sapling, BUT YOU'LL LOP YOUR FOOT OFF!" ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 4:52:11 GMT
Okay, that doesn't look like a sword. It looks to be an overbuilt cross between a wak and a bolo machete. The reason micarta doesn't get destroyed in a blade like that is because your primary node is outside the hilt area by a fair margin (and it's a fine choice for smaller blades as there is less issues with harmonics in shorter blades). Their knives look pretty good but I distrust proprietary alloy. Generally speaking, it's a gimik to charge 10x what the item is actually worth(not that they do so since I have no idea what they cost). Basically, that's not a sword...it's a very nice, very expensive machete(I assume it costs more then 20 bucks). Use that for chopping wood to your hearts content as it looks like what that was designed for and not a sword. Exactly the response I expected. Because it performs tasks you don not feel swords are capable of performing, it is not a sword. You have defined swords by subtracting functions from a tool rather than adding them, and you have further defined a sword by what it is not capable of doing rather than any point of design. I can't say that I see any real logic in this philosophy. As for the video demo...yeah kinda neat to see...but I do the same things using my cold steel bolo machete that costs 14 bucks. Post up the video. And finally, if you really don't wanna believe that soft tissue plays a HUGE role in weapon design, fine whatever...believe what you will, you obviously really dont wanna listen and somehow think force is everything. I have explained why I think your statement is incorrect. I think at this point you are just repeating yourself. If you can offer any kind of explanation or support for your statement, I will listen to it. If you don't wanna listen to our warning about the danger of using a sword to hack at trees, fine do what you want. We aren't your parents, we aren't your guardians. Do what you want...but don't expect us to applaud you for ignoring what is considered by this community to be very basic safety issues. Don't expect us to accept you when you flaunt reckless behavior. Sometimes I drive fast too.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 2, 2009 4:52:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 4:58:32 GMT
I have knives more dangerous in this respect than a lot of swords. I'm not looking for A Christmas Story. Sure, I could shoot my eye out. But when I ask about the capabilities of a sword, I am completely unmoved by some people saying, "Yeah, it will go through that sapling, BUT YOU'LL LOP YOUR FOOT OFF!" ;D And yet that is what essentially happen to somebody on this forum. I nearly lost a foot last week because I got careless and a small lapse in concentration and judgement. If the sword had moved 2 inches to the left, I would not have a foot right now. Had I lost my concentration a split second earlier, I would have killed an onlooker. I got unbelieveably lucky...this time. Safety while cutting isn't a funny matter where you can joke about with comments like a christmas story "you'll shoot your eye out kid" or a smiley face.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 5:03:38 GMT
And yet that is what essentially happen to somebody on this forum. I nearly lost a foot last week because I got careless and a small lapse in concentration and judgement. If the sword had moved 2 inches to the left, I would not have a foot right now. Had I lost my concentration a split second earlier, I would have killed an onlooker. I got unbelieveably lucky...this time. Safety while cutting isn't a funny matter where you can joke about with comments like a christmas story "you'll shoot your eye out kid" or a smiley face. People actually shoot their own eyes out too. Sharp things are dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 5:05:03 GMT
And yet that is what essentially happen to somebody on this forum. I nearly lost a foot last week because I got careless and a small lapse in concentration and judgement. If the sword had moved 2 inches to the left, I would not have a foot right now. Had I lost my concentration a split second earlier, I would have killed an onlooker. I got unbelieveably lucky...this time. Safety while cutting isn't a funny matter where you can joke about with comments like a christmas story "you'll shoot your eye out kid" or a smiley face. People actually shoot their own eyes out too. Sharp things are dangerous. And that makes doing stupid things less stupid how...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 5:13:44 GMT
People actually shoot their own eyes out too. Sharp things are dangerous. And that makes doing stupid things less stupid how... Stupid things like what? Buying swords that break on saplings but magically cleave bone?
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 2, 2009 5:14:20 GMT
Geez it smells in here
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 5:19:04 GMT
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