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Post by Sonny Suttles on Jul 1, 2009 1:15:54 GMT
Just FYI, I know this want help for now but..... Gus and I are redesigning the Norseman to be built on one of his blades with much lighter weight fittings. Should be out early next year and I promise it will be a real winner.
Sonny
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Post by hotspur on Jul 1, 2009 1:22:14 GMT
Not sure about later times, but swords were definitely not considered disposable in the Viking Age. Considering the fact that Vikings used their swords to hack away at iron rimmed wood shields and chainmail, they would have to replace their broken swords. That is, unless they had magical elven swords that cut other swords in half like a lightsaber. Unless I'm wrong, and it's perfectly fine to chop down trees with swords. I guess that instead of actually researching legitimate facts I should watch movies like Highlander. Shields of that genre did not have iron rimmed shields and folk wore armour (of all kinds) to keep the swords from cutting their. body parts. Maybe researching legitimate facts might not be a bad idea for anyone. Just some thoughts Hotspur; then again, some perceptions may never change
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 4:52:04 GMT
Okay, chainmail when placed above a soft target does almost nil damage to a sword. And chainmail is pretty darn effective at stopping a slash. Viking shields generally had rawhide edging...not steel. And even against steel rimmed shields, a sword blow that hits shields generally don't do very much because of the angles they hit at and because the shield intercepts the sword WAY before it's generating most of the force since that is kind of the point of having a shield. Sword were not disposible until MUCH later in time when they could mass produced swords. Now that doesn't mean a you didn't have backup weapons. Even the best made sword will suffer from bad luck and break or just from lots of usage so having a backup weapon when your life depends on it is a pretty good idea. And finally even that being said, the primary weapon of a viking isn't even the sword anyways as the spear was what you usally used first.
In anycase, abusing a mass produced sword is not what any of us here would consider a good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 5:25:45 GMT
Have you read Ricwilly's review of the Valiant Viking:
/index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=2010&page=1#34290
He also did an update:
/index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=8921
I have Valiant's Falchion--same vintage as the 2 swords you're looking at-- and it is heavy but it is also tough and will pretty much hack through anything.
Also keep an eye on Museum Replicas' Last Chance and Deal of the Day pages. Sometimes they have great swords at really nice prices.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 5:56:37 GMT
Have you read Ricwilly's review of the Valiant Viking: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=2010&page=1#34290 He also did an update: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=8921 I have Valiant's Falchion--same vintage as the 2 swords you're looking at-- and it is heavy but it is also tough and will pretty much hack through anything. Also keep an eye on Museum Replicas' Last Chance and Deal of the Day pages. Sometimes they have great swords at really nice prices. What the hell? It looks like it does pretty well to me. What am I missing?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 6:33:31 GMT
The main weapon during the Viking era was the spear or Axe, the sword was the backup weapon, and not that many on the battlefield at all....................SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 7:37:54 GMT
Have you read Ricwilly's review of the Valiant Viking: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=2010&page=1#34290 He also did an update: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=8921 I have Valiant's Falchion--same vintage as the 2 swords you're looking at-- and it is heavy but it is also tough and will pretty much hack through anything. Also keep an eye on Museum Replicas' Last Chance and Deal of the Day pages. Sometimes they have great swords at really nice prices. What the hell? It looks like it does pretty well to me. What am I missing? Umm...bad grip(the review doesn't even mention the slick factor which is actually quite dangerous), heavy and needs a new edge is does pretty well to you? I know you have a budget, but the windlass ones aren't that much more...and your gonna need to expend about as much effort resharpening the old VA lines compared to an unsharpened windlass anyways. But if you wanna give it a whirl, go for it...if nothing else, it could be a 150 dollar hunk of steel for you to practice sharpening on. edit: it looks like the VA swords are $170 anyways...thats the same price as the Sticklestad windlass sword...so honestly do you really like how the VA looks that much or something? I mean honestly, as a deco piece you can pull down and do some backyard cutting, the windlass wins hands down as it looks like what a viking sword should look...should at least basically feel like. That is what you said you wanted...if you wanna abuse the blade and don't care about anything else don't settle...save up and get a DSA. Might not be a historically accurate looking or feeling blade, but at least I feel safe using one if I just had this insatiable need to abuse a blade. I get the feeling you want a sword you can beat up more then anything else...that STILL does not make cutting 2x4 or saplings a safe thing to do BTW. In anycase you can say you want a beater sword...buy don't lie about about you plan on doing with the sword. You'll end up getting something wrong for what you want and you may hurt yourself or others that way. If I am mis-informed, I'm sorry, but the way you replied so far makes me think this way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 8:24:12 GMT
BTW. In anycase you can say you want a beater sword...buy don't lie about about you plan on doing with the sword. You'll end up getting something wrong for what you want and you may hurt yourself or others that way. If I am mis-informed, I'm sorry, but the way you replied so far makes me think this way. realy makes me wonder about giveing any advice at all
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 8:53:25 GMT
Well sometime we have to help somebody figure out what they really plan to do with a sword. Many new people just don't know yet...and that kinda part of what a forum like this is good for.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 1, 2009 9:36:30 GMT
It was actually a link to the baselard II, but it doesn't have an individual url for the page. Ah, yeah, I like that sword, I might pick one up... but its not a viking sword. It is a cool looking short sword tho, and I love short swords.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 10:12:30 GMT
The main weapon during the Viking era was the spear or Axe, the sword was the backup weapon, and not that many on the battlefield at all....................SanMarc. Yes, that's important to understand. Swords did survive long because they were backup, weapon of social status and wealth. Maybe more used for dueling were agility and speed are more important than in a shieldwall. And they were used with caution. Old authors state that with a sword, few well timed and good blows are prefered than many blows.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 10:34:59 GMT
What the hell? It looks like it does pretty well to me. What am I missing? Umm...bad grip(the review doesn't even mention the slick factor which is actually quite dangerous), heavy and needs a new edge is does pretty well to you? I know you have a budget, but the windlass ones aren't that much more...and your gonna need to expend about as much effort resharpening the old VA lines compared to an unsharpened windlass anyways. But if you wanna give it a whirl, go for it...if nothing else, it could be a 150 dollar hunk of steel for you to practice sharpening on. Yes, for $150 that sounds pretty good. edit: it looks like the VA swords are $170 anyways...thats the same price as the Sticklestad windlass sword...so honestly do you really like how the VA looks that much or something? I mean honestly, as a deco piece you can pull down and do some backyard cutting, the windlass wins hands down as it looks like what a viking sword should look...should at least basically feel like. That is what you said you wanted...if you wanna abuse the blade and don't care about anything else don't settle...save up and get a DSA. Might not be a historically accurate looking or feeling blade, but at least I feel safe using one if I just had this insatiable need to abuse a blade. I get the feeling you want a sword you can beat up more then anything else...that STILL does not make cutting 2x4 or saplings a safe thing to do BTW. In anycase you can say you want a beater sword...buy don't lie about about you plan on doing with the sword. You'll end up getting something wrong for what you want and you may hurt yourself or others that way. If I am mis-informed, I'm sorry, but the way you replied so far makes me think this way. I can pick up a VA viking for $153 shipped. I already have a beater sword on order, but it is probably a month or two out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 10:36:04 GMT
It was actually a link to the baselard II, but it doesn't have an individual url for the page. Ah, yeah, I like that sword, I might pick one up... but its not a viking sword. It is a cool looking short sword tho, and I love short swords. Yeah, I understand that. I just liked the design and the price point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 10:46:50 GMT
Saplings are unsafe because of the things I mentioned. You get too agressive and you can cut through the sapling...then your leg like in the picture in the lower link(and since they have variable density, you don't know when too much is too much for any branch). And like I said, there is also the visability issue in many cases. Also green wood is usually MUCH harder(never underestimate the resilence of green wood) to cut then to shear bone on same size. Bone isn't as hard to break though as you think. I don't see how doing it with a sword is any less dangerous than doing it with a machete. I'm not sure that this bone - greenwood relationship you've outlined is realistic. The two materials possess different characteristics. What do you mean when you say wood is "harder to cut through?" You can't mean that wood is actually harder than bone. Bone is harder than green wood, but green wood can be a much tougher material than bone. These factors affect steel differently. Bone may be easier to break than green wood, but part of that is because bone is harder. Though it may be easier to crack and break, it is more likely to damage an edge than softer wood. This leaves out lateral forces, but that is just part of a proper cut. While bone may be easier to break, green wood is easier to slice. Because of its fibrous nature, it green wood might be more likely to dull a blade more quickly than a similar blade going through bone, but the blade going through bone would be more subject to chipping and breaking.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jul 1, 2009 10:53:23 GMT
Have you read Ricwilly's review of the Valiant Viking: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=2010&page=1#34290 He also did an update: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=8921 I have Valiant's Falchion--same vintage as the 2 swords you're looking at-- and it is heavy but it is also tough and will pretty much hack through anything. Also keep an eye on Museum Replicas' Last Chance and Deal of the Day pages. Sometimes they have great swords at really nice prices. What the hell? It looks like it does pretty well to me. What am I missing? herbertwest, depends on what you want to do with it. Just want to beat up on stuff, probably okay but as has been mentioned, not really a safe idea. Cold is correct about the slip factor of the grip. Along with the grip being too big and the sword too heavy it doesn't feel real secure in hand. Bottom line, if you want a sword for cutting I'd pass on this one. It's just not "fun" to use, that's the biggie with me. ;D My bad, I wasn't real clear in my review. Compare the cutting of the KC viking (I know it's above your price range, video just for clairification).
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 1, 2009 12:29:10 GMT
Saplings are unsafe because of the things I mentioned. You get too agressive and you can cut through the sapling...then your leg like in the picture in the lower link(and since they have variable density, you don't know when too much is too much for any branch). And like I said, there is also the visability issue in many cases. Also green wood is usually MUCH harder(never underestimate the resilence of green wood) to cut then to shear bone on same size. Bone isn't as hard to break though as you think. I don't see how doing it with a sword is any less dangerous than doing it with a machete. I'm not sure that this bone - greenwood relationship you've outlined is realistic. The two materials possess different characteristics. What do you mean when you say wood is "harder to cut through?" You can't mean that wood is actually harder than bone. Bone is harder than green wood, but green wood can be a much tougher material than bone. These factors affect steel differently. Bone may be easier to break than green wood, but part of that is because bone is harder. Though it may be easier to crack and break, it is more likely to damage an edge than softer wood. This leaves out lateral forces, but that is just part of a proper cut. While bone may be easier to break, green wood is easier to slice. Because of its fibrous nature, it green wood might be more likely to dull a blade more quickly than a similar blade going through bone, but the blade going through bone would be more subject to chipping and breaking. Sound like you have some pretty definitive evidence and lots of experience severing bone. Truth is .. theres a LOT of difference between LIVING bone and dead bone.... Dead bone IS very hard.... cant comment of living bone... as I've never cut through living bone... but I've read and heard from numerous sources it is much more supple..... The differences between a machete designed to clear brush , and a sword designed to cleave flesh.. are ENORMOUS... the right tool for the right job......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 13:48:08 GMT
Just FYI, I know this want help for now but..... Gus and I are redesigning the Norseman to be built on one of his blades with much lighter weight fittings. Should be out early next year and I promise it will be a real winner. Sonny Huh. Think I'll wait on that one there....
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jul 1, 2009 17:37:40 GMT
is he talking about the Hedemark we've seen? or something new? the Hedemark is DEAD SEXY! to the OP, I reccomend you try very hard to get the highest quality sword you can. there's a lot of reward in going for the quality. that may mean you either have to move towards a sword that is not EXACTLY wat you were imagining (Baselard etc.) or it may mean saving up for a little while and getting one later but in the end it will make you happier. especially if you have a beater sword on the way. the $150 price range is just really hard to find anything decent in. I'm sorry, but thats the truth of it.
if it was me and I had to cut the line at $150 I'd try for the windlass I linked or watch the windlass website for a special deal. in this price range I think patience will be well rewarded. haste will not satisfy you, most likely.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 0:50:48 GMT
I don't see how doing it with a sword is any less dangerous than doing it with a machete. I'm not sure that this bone - greenwood relationship you've outlined is realistic. The two materials possess different characteristics. What do you mean when you say wood is "harder to cut through?" You can't mean that wood is actually harder than bone. Bone is harder than green wood, but green wood can be a much tougher material than bone. These factors affect steel differently. Bone may be easier to break than green wood, but part of that is because bone is harder. Though it may be easier to crack and break, it is more likely to damage an edge than softer wood. This leaves out lateral forces, but that is just part of a proper cut. While bone may be easier to break, green wood is easier to slice. Because of its fibrous nature, it green wood might be more likely to dull a blade more quickly than a similar blade going through bone, but the blade going through bone would be more subject to chipping and breaking. Sound like you have some pretty definitive evidence and lots of experience severing bone. More than most, less than some. Truth is .. theres a LOT of difference between LIVING bone and dead bone.... Dead bone IS very hard.... cant comment of living bone... as I've never cut through living bone... but I've read and heard from numerous sources it is much more supple..... Living bone is much more supple than desicated bone, but the term is more than a bit misgiving. Neither would be accurately described as supple. You might as well put it in terms of steel and say that living bone is more resistant to deformation than desicated bone. In any case, they are both harder than green wood. The differences between a machete designed to clear brush , and a sword designed to cleave flesh.. are ENORMOUS... the right tool for the right job...... One would think so. What are some of these differences? The first that comes to my mind is probably edge geometry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2009 1:03:40 GMT
Saplings are unsafe because of the things I mentioned. You get too agressive and you can cut through the sapling...then your leg like in the picture in the lower link(and since they have variable density, you don't know when too much is too much for any branch). And like I said, there is also the visability issue in many cases. Also green wood is usually MUCH harder(never underestimate the resilence of green wood) to cut then to shear bone on same size. Bone isn't as hard to break though as you think. I don't see how doing it with a sword is any less dangerous than doing it with a machete. I'm not sure that this bone - greenwood relationship you've outlined is realistic. The two materials possess different characteristics. What do you mean when you say wood is "harder to cut through?" You can't mean that wood is actually harder than bone. Bone is harder than green wood, but green wood can be a much tougher material than bone. These factors affect steel differently. Bone may be easier to break than green wood, but part of that is because bone is harder. Though it may be easier to crack and break, it is more likely to damage an edge than softer wood. This leaves out lateral forces, but that is just part of a proper cut. While bone may be easier to break, green wood is easier to slice. Because of its fibrous nature, it green wood might be more likely to dull a blade more quickly than a similar blade going through bone, but the blade going through bone would be more subject to chipping and breaking. Because a machete is a tool designed to chop green wood. A sword is designed to chop up a person. VERY different things. Also even long dead bone, which is harder then living bone, shatters pretty easily...after which the soft tissue surrounding the bone absorbs any energy the bone shards may have that would seriously damage a sword. If you were to chop a bone without the soft tissue, then yes dead bone can damage a sword and it's about as dangerous as cutting glass with a sword(and yes this is a great big no no). Green wood last I checked lacks soft tissue. Honestly though, if your gonna treat a sword like a machete, don't get a sword. Save the 140 bucks and get a machete. No offense, but you obviously have no idea what a sword is. It's not an axe or a machete to chop up wood with...it's a weapon design for the sole purpose of killing another person as effectively as possible(barring specialized swords...like for stage combat or training). If your not gonna respect this aspect of a sword, you should seriously reconsider getting one before you hurt yourself or others. As for getting a beater...umm you don't consider the VA a beater?!? What the heck did you waste your money on?!? Because if it's even beefer then a over 4 lb one hander sword, I'm sorry, but you just wasted your money something fierce. If you really like how the VA looks...go for it. It's money for sonny...but don't expect much onlooker to be very impressed if they even have any incling of what a sword is beyond what they see on TV. And you will have to redo the edge anyways...I don't mean a touch up, the edge is so bad that it's just better to redo the thing entirely then to attempt a useable edge with touch ups. And did I mention the grip isn't very safe for cutting? Honestly, really...you plan on using this thing to hack apart things swords aren't suppose to be used on and it has an unsafe grip and if you STILL wanna get this sword, go ahead and do it because you obviously made up your mind at this point.
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