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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2009 5:01:27 GMT
Scott Rodell is currently testing the prototype of the long awaited Hanwei cutting Jian. Check out grtc.org forum for discussions on this.
Apparently it has the historically accurate clamshell blade geometry vs. the inaccurate and more fragile flattened diamond geometry seen on today's replicas....even on costlier swords like the folded versions of the Huanuo.
Fittings are steel. Price will be very reasonable I hope.
I own a folded steel Royal Peony from Huanuo but the historically inaccurate blade geometry has always perturbed me. I do own 5 antique jian with proper geometry but all of them have blade damage from past combat rendering them 'not safe' for cutting/combat.
So....this new jian really excites me!!! Also the arms and armor jian at around $500 also has the historically accurate blade geometry.
Don't waste money on nice looking swords that cut well but don't have the right geometry to take the rigors of combat. I did, but the perfectionist in me just can't stand that.
Hopefully this new Hanwei cutting jian goes to production soon!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2009 8:16:41 GMT
Scott Rodell is currently testing the prototype of the long awaited Hanwei cutting Jian. Check out grtc.org forum for discussions on this. Apparently it has the historically accurate clamshell blade geometry vs. the inaccurate and more fragile flattened diamond geometry seen on today's replicas....even on costlier swords like the folded versions of the Huanuo. Fittings are steel. Price will be very reasonable I hope. I own a folded steel Royal Peony from Huanuo but the historically inaccurate blade geometry has always perturbed me. I do own 5 antique jian with proper geometry but all of them have blade damage from past combat rendering them 'not safe' for cutting/combat. So....this new jian really excites me!!! Also the arms and armor jian at around $500 also has the historically accurate blade geometry. Don't waste money on nice looking swords that cut well but don't have the right geometry to take the rigors of combat. I did, but the perfectionist in me just can't stand that. Hopefully this new Hanwei cutting jian goes to production soon!!! So the Scott Rodell Hanwei is not just a hopeful myth?!!!? Dang I hope those go into production soon myself. I can't wait to see what this baby will look like. I just hope the go with the Ching style hilt not the Ming style but that is just my personal preference. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2009 9:55:54 GMT
So the Scott Rodell Hanwei is not just a hopeful myth?!!!? Dang I hope those go into production soon myself. I can't wait to see what this baby will look like. I just hope the go with the Ching style hilt not the Ming style but that is just my personal preference. What's the difference? I don't mean to be snotty, I genuinely don't know the difference between the different dynasty styles... |
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Post by sicheah on Jul 15, 2009 13:53:28 GMT
I am not very good at explaining the shape of the hilt between both dynasties and let the pics do the talking.... Unfortunately I could not even get good pics of Ming and Qing/Ching jians so I'll use pictures of stylized hilt from wasters  Ming dynasty hilt  Qing dynasty hilt  Hope that helps Edit: Pictures are obtained from Raven studios at: www.little-raven.com/RS/MA/index.html |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2009 16:44:19 GMT
So the Scott Rodell Hanwei is not just a hopeful myth?!!!? Dang I hope those go into production soon myself. I can't wait to see what this baby will look like. I just hope the go with the Ching style hilt not the Ming style but that is just my personal preference. What's the difference? I don't mean to be snotty, I genuinely don't know the difference between the different dynasty styles... It's not snotty, Taran. A Ching/Qing hilt has the "horns" point towards the blade, the Ming style has the "horns" pointing towards the handle. I, personally, think the Ching style has more practical use but that's just my opinion. Either way I look forward to seeing Hanwei's take on a "cutting quality" Jian. If it's half the cutter that CS Gim of yours is, it will be worth it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 1:24:31 GMT
Actually most Ching (Qing) era swords had backward pointing quillons. A few examples and some earlier era ones had forward pointing ones but the forward pointing ones were generally rarer. Check out Alex Huang Fu's book for examples. The picture from raven studios approximates the large 'ace of spade' backward pointing guard that were typical of late Qing/early republican jian. Many earlier jian had smaller guards. forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=471a post discussing Ming style jian. Note most surviving antiques are of Qing era. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 1:29:08 GMT
forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=795go to bottom of first page for pics of the Hanwei Scott Rodell model cutting jian. Fittings are steel. Frankly with it's accurate blade geometry I'm going to ditch my Huanuo Royal Peony and get a couple of these. The flattened diamond profile is more prone to edge damage than the biconvex clamshell shape. Unfortunately every production jian today except Arms and Armor and this prototype use the flattened diamond blade geometry, ok for cutting mats bamboo, but hit anything harder, like wood shaft/ armor and it won't perform like the antiques. To me it's like comparing an expensive Airsoft gun to a real firearm
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 2:11:42 GMT
I noticed that the A&A one has a ricasso near the hilt. Does this feature on antique ones?
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 3:09:12 GMT
Ricasso as a feature seem to appear in late Qing jian. These jian tend to be large 30-32" blade, and have a 6-8" ricasso. I have one example of such a antique jian. The blade on my example is quite thin and has some very nasty combat nicks/stress fractures on it.
On some older jian I have, blade is a little thicker and is polished almost all the way to the hilt. there are nicks present but none of the radiating stress fractures seen in the thinner jian blades I have.
All have the clamshell blade geometry.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 3:34:23 GMT
forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=795go to bottom of first page for pics of the Hanwei Scott Rodell model cutting jian. Fittings are steel. Frankly with it's accurate blade geometry I'm going to ditch my Huanuo Royal Peony and get a couple of these. The flattened diamond profile is more prone to edge damage than the biconvex clamshell shape. Unfortunately every production jian today except Arms and Armor and this prototype use the flattened diamond blade geometry, ok for cutting mats bamboo, but hit anything harder, like wood shaft/ armor and it won't perform like the antiques. To me it's like comparing an expensive Airsoft gun to a real firearm I think it'd be better to compare it to a Bersa Thunder and a Walther PPK. An airsoft gun, no matter how well-made, is going to be killing people. The comparison is probably done better within weapons holding similar potential. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 5:34:01 GMT
More like a Walther PPK to a Sig P232.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 19:07:14 GMT
More like a Walther PPK to a Sig P232. .... hm. Agreed... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2009 8:24:32 GMT
clamshell blade geometry vs. flatend diamond geometry.
Could anybody show those in cross sections, thanks! No idea how clamshell looks like.
And why are there so many diamond shaped blades on Thomas Chen's site?
Please educate, if possible!
Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2009 10:59:36 GMT
Actually most Ching (Qing) era swords had backward pointing quillons. A few examples and some earlier era ones had forward pointing ones but the forward pointing ones were generally rarer. Check out Alex Huang Fu's book for examples. The picture from raven studios approximates the large 'ace of spade' backward pointing guard that were typical of late Qing/early republican jian. Many earlier jian had smaller guards. forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=471a post discussing Ming style jian. Note most surviving antiques are of Qing era. Thank you for correcting me. I was under a misconception apparently. So forward point quillions would be indicative of what particular era? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 20:51:00 GMT
Quing.
M.
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Post by sicheah on Jul 19, 2009 23:19:59 GMT
clamshell blade geometry vs. flatend diamond geometry. Could anybody show those in cross sections, thanks! No idea how clamshell looks like. And why are there so many diamond shaped blades on Thomas Chen's site? Please educate, if possible! Thank you! It is very difficult to get a cross-section geometry comparison from the web so I took some time to draw it out. This picture below exaggerates the difference between the clam-shell and flattened diamond geometry. They are not very realistic pictures IMO but highlights the difference between the cross section discussed above. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.  Hope that helps Edit:link |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2009 9:43:53 GMT
Lenticular would be another good word perhaps?
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 5:35:27 GMT
clamshell blade geometry vs. flatend diamond geometry. Could anybody show those in cross sections, thanks! No idea how clamshell looks like. And why are there so many diamond shaped blades on Thomas Chen's site? Please educate, if possible! Thank you! It is very difficult to get a cross-section geometry comparison from the web so I took some time to draw it out. This picture below exaggerates the difference between the clam-shell and flattened diamond geometry. They are not very realistic pictures IMO but highlights the difference between the cross section discussed above. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Hope that helps Edit:link Thanks a lot, very much appreciated. Now I can see why cutting with the diamond shaped blades is supposed to be much easier. I hear that clamshell blades might just split off (bamboo etc.), if angles anrd technique are not perfect. But my own Taiwan made cutters are a mix inbetween, anyway, not that thick as a diamond in the middle, but also not that thick at the cutting edge, either. Not sure whether that would be historically correct, though. Thanks again. |
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