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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 3:35:38 GMT
Saw this ad for a sword and it make me pause.... Not decoration because it's a razor sharp stainless steel... am I missing something?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 3:46:49 GMT
This just made my day. Thank you.
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Post by wiwingti on May 14, 2009 6:11:01 GMT
Saw this ad for a sword and it make me pause.... Not decoration because it's a razor sharp stainless steel... am I missing something? oh man,, it is too funny lol
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 6:14:59 GMT
I don't know of what you are referring to my good man, stainless steel is a perfectly good material for use in the production of a sword... hilt part
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 14:04:56 GMT
pirates right! i don't buy anything unless its at least 440 stainless hahaha (sad part is once upon a time it was true haha)
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 18:54:33 GMT
Thank you for posting this...I can't tell you how many eBay ads I read that say 'battle ready' or 'fully functional' with a carbon stainless steel blade.
Ah, the unwashed masses...so easily led.
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Post by hotspur on May 14, 2009 19:50:02 GMT
I can appreciate the derision targeted at such sales and ad copy but it is a shame to view such a simple misnomer as stainless being completely useless.
Names like Engnath, Dawson and Hossom would come to mind for some. Then again would be mention of the bars of steel offered and used by such as Bill tsafa, here on SBG.
High chromium steels need not be brittle in sword lengths and some can perfom fantastically. Agreeably, much of what gets passed off as dangerous or unsuited to real use but absolutes should always be approached with due caveat in hand. The sad part is that some will embrace the trend of sub $100 "high carbon" as worth any more note than the horrors some envisage as the only use for "stainless" swords. I see such terms as used somewhat ubiquitously without realizing other faults or investigating (learning) what these terms really mean.
The market learned quickly that substituting "high carbon" blades in jest of offering safer swords at low cost just means they can sell similar offal for the same prices they once commanded offering the "stainless" blades. That one can now collect basket of low end backyard fun for pennies; How many end up having spent the cost a much nicer sword would afford. That may seem jaded and often related but there is some truth to that.
Cheers
Hotspur; sorry, didn't mean to ramble off in a lecture but all stainless need not be all bad
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 23:36:52 GMT
I can appreciate the derision targeted at such sales and ad copy but it is a shame to view such a simple misnomer as stainless being completely useless. Names like Engnath, Dawson and Hossom would come to mind for some. Then again would be mention of the bars of steel offered and used by such as Bill tsafa, here on SBG. High chromium steels need not be brittle in sword lengths and some can perfom fantastically. Agreeably, much of what gets passed off as dangerous or unsuited to real use but absolutes should always be approached with due caveat in hand. The sad part is that some will embrace the trend of sub $100 "high carbon" as worth any more note than the horrors some envisage as the only use for "stainless" swords. I see such terms as used somewhat ubiquitously without realizing other faults or investigating (learning) what these terms really mean. The market learned quickly that substituting "high carbon" blades in jest of offering safer swords at low cost just means they can sell similar offal for the same prices they once commanded offering the "stainless" blades. That one can now collect basket of low end backyard fun for pennies; How many end up having spent the cost a much nicer sword would afford. That may seem jaded and often related but there is some truth to that. Cheers Hotspur; sorry, didn't mean to ramble off in a lecture but all stainless need not be all badI should have mentioned that the pictures of the Katana showed "440 Stainless" stamped ONTO the blade.....
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 23:51:13 GMT
Have to agree with spur on this one. Jay Fisher who is also one of the leading names in the knife/sword industry uses SS in his swords as well as his knives. I couldn't tell you what types of SS are good for swords though.
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Post by hotspur on May 15, 2009 0:30:43 GMT
Hi Drache In understanding the derision of such outcries and blade markings, I would still keep an open mind in discussing absolutes about any steel. You have labeled 440 as the devil's spawn. I can understand the feeling but I can't agree with the absolute. 440 what? A, B,C, ?? Who did the heat treatment? It is not your orginal thread starter that concerns me more than others offering absolutes. I hopefully have pointed out that I can agree with many instances of it without assigning absolutes regarding steels and heat treatment. A Barry Dawson anecdote regarding 440 series steel I couldn't help but remember with a slight smile that day also. Mike had made the mistake of mentioning an article he had just read about sword testing in Japan. I calmly walked over to where his heat treated Katana blade lie on the work bench and proceeded to tighten the end of the blade in the vice. His jaw must have dropped two inches when I began to bend the blade back. I could feel his chest tighten as I grunted against the strength of the blade. About the time he yelled, "What the Hell!!". I slowly released the blade, removed it quickly from the vice and handed it to him with an amused grin on my face. I calmly told him to look carefully down the length of the blade. "I'll be damned"! Mike exclaimed. "It's as straight as an arrow".Nor is that a singular event. I have a couple of LOTR wallhangers here I specifically meant to destroy at some point. So far, I am quite impressed with the amount of spring they exhibit. While they are threaded rod welded to the blades and absolutely unsafe at most speeds, the blade itself doesn't appear to be likely to shatter from severe bending, nor impacts. We'll see. I expect them to fold a couple of times before they break. I had bought them for the scabbards but in this case, the blades were actually better made. $19.95 at KOA for a Witch King and a Wizard. Absolutely functional as decorative but absolutely unsafe because of the tangs, As mentioned, we'll see (at some point). Cheers Hotspur; an open mind encourages a fuller cup
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2009 13:47:46 GMT
The UC LoTR swords are well made; I won't say that they are the exception but I've handled a number of stainless wall hangers and none of those had the flex or finish as those ones do. Having said that, I've read too many times that stainless doesn't fit in a 'functional' setting, it won't hold an edge for very long as it is softer than carbon- is that not so?
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Post by hotspur on May 15, 2009 15:20:29 GMT
All steel contains carbon. A good many one wouldn't expect of them do have some chromium. Toss the buzzwords right out of the equation when regarding any bladed object and look more at the specifics. Just a for instance, I have read on these very same boards that a good many of the katanaesque swords lauded here as excellent buys also have the same for edge retention that leads to dulling quite quickly.
All I am "preaching" about here is to discard the absolutes and view stuff in a better individual context. Yes, most high chromium steel swords are not suitable for the use many here project. On the flip side, their low or no chromium steel swords aren't really any less dangerous or well suited to lots of use.
Some trivia.
Any steel with a carbon content more than .3% is classified as high carbon steel, regardless of wheter it has chromium and other resitance to oxidation. That .3% works out to 1030 for simple steels. Guess what? Steels such as 5160 and 6150 have chromium. Stainless steel? No one would label either that but they are more resistant to oxidation than 1050 and 1060.
There are some steel charts around about here at SBG and a good amout of discussion regarding the various pitfalls of the devil steels. Fortunately, there is no reason to fear the devil steels. Rather, study them and anyone's ad copy.
There is no such thing as stainless steel. Some steels are more resistant to red rust but the truth is that they do oxidise, yet can be more resistant to oxidation.
Heat treatment of any steel is not so much a mystery and one could/should readily understand that blanket absolutes really should be left on a shelf.
It is the repetition of skimming the surface that leads to (what is best left as mythology) "I read" "I heard", without looking a bit deeper.
I once had a heart to heart with Paul Southren about some pretty simple stuff being left as absolutes, with the caveats that the absolutes are best suited for beginners. The potential damage of the truth is actually pretty negligible but you will still find snot nosed creeps like me trying to point out the simple precept that one gets out of what they put into knowledge and that none of us knows it all.
So anyway, toss the high carbon and stainless absolutes in the bucket of poor trivia unless someone is able to offer better specifics regarding the products and best use of them.
I wholly agree that any of the ad copy is pretty miserable and quite laughable. It is when the ace of absolutes gets played, some of us are going to offer a better deck to read.
Cheers
Hotspur; perspective and context can go a long way in understanding
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2009 15:49:00 GMT
pirates right! i don't buy anything unless its at least 440 stainless hahaha (sad part is once upon a time it was true haha) haha was going to say, I remember the days when that was the @#%* to buy for what would now be called a SLO.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2009 8:43:14 GMT
Something that must be kept in mind is the average person probably cannot identify stainless steel on sight. Stainless steel is common but mis-identification is probably extremely common.
Great example was a katana a friend of mine bought at a garage sale for a few bucks. A cursory glance said the blade was stainless steel and my friend identified it so. I didnt check it and we decided to try a little forging in the back yard (We build fires that have melted a cast iron grate over the course of six months) for fun. We took the sword appart, I stuck the blade in the fire, pulled it out in a few minnutes to check how well the blade was heating...and about four inches of the blade FELL OFF.
After picking my jaw up off the floor and examining the blade, we found out it was freaking POT METAL with an aluminum coating.
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