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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 12, 2009 7:37:23 GMT
I have developed an interest in the thrusting type of swords designed to combat the rise of plate armour. I have decided to make a couple of them. I'm doing a type XV with a fantasy spin, and a type XVIIIe. They dont suit backyard cutters as well since they just aren't designed for cutting, and as such I understand that their popularity here may suffer. Though the Hanwei Albrecht has won a few fans over the years. So if you have any thrusters in your sword porn folders that you'd like to show off feel free to post them, or whatever else you have to say... Some cool reading at MyArmoury, with historic examples: www.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxv.htmlwww.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxvi.htmlwww.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxvii.htmlwww.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxviii.htmlJake Powning: Peter Johnsson: Peter Lyon / Weta:
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2009 8:09:46 GMT
Oh wow....that first Weta/ Peter Lyon sword is drop dead amazing....
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 12, 2009 8:21:01 GMT
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Post by hotspur on May 12, 2009 20:17:11 GMT
It may be a bit of a misnomer to paint a broad pallet of many to be only thrust oriented. Of these, it is really the XV and XVII typologies that might be best categorized as best thrust oriented. Both XVI and XVIII variations have proven to be quite able to be incredibly capable in cutting. Of what I have here, it is some labled as XVI and XVII types, my assortment is lackin g in that department but the XVIIIa and XVIIIb swords I have were actually on a par with XIIa and XIIIa swords that have been truly cuttable. While my XVa has been a favorite and hands down one I would probably never let go, it is a couple of XVIIIa swords that have been quite capable in shearing cuts. Here with a XVa and a large XVIIIa (which is quite stiff for such a cutter). A shorter XVIII a that has been brutally capable of cutting, as mounted different fittings from the Edward III recreations. Then there are XVIIIb types that are lithe and very workable but perhaps best suited to unarmored do-alls pokage and lighter target cutting. Especially if compared to a XIIIa and XIIa, the XVIIIb and XVIIIc types do many things well but excell at neither as an absolute. b c Of thoughts in pursuing a commission for what I would want in an ultimate choice, chances are I will be looking at the XVI and XVII types as a period in history I appreciate a lot and still lack an example of. Still, it is my particular XVa (bronze A&A Black Prince) that has always been one to handle and work with. It is truly a stiff estoc like sword in rigidity and not found of trick shots in doing parlor trick cutting but is one that has proven quite seriously cutting into harder targets. My first appraisal of that sword was comparison of cutting into a bottle filled with lead shot and stuffed in a leather boot. At that level of impact, the very rigid XVa still opened up a gash that would be quite frightful in the context of what these swords were still capable of. Then also, one must make allowances for typology placements, as there is often a good amount of overlap and at a time maybe over-analyzed at times. I lokk at any sword I handle as offering myself the opportunity in gettng the best out of it. I am quite guilty of not giving anything I have ever owned in not giving a particular sword time to assimilate. Cheers Hotspur; my trends have gone to the later centuries but I'll never forget what I have enjoyed of the whole Oakeshott categorizing daysmany typos still, no doubt
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2009 22:20:47 GMT
I absolutely love this type of sword so I will be interested to see your designs. There are not enough people making these types of swords, or at least not enough people making good swords of this type. This is my Albion Squire, (Type XVI) it combines both the best bits of a cutting and thrusting blade. A wide flat blade capable of cutting and with a acute tip You might want to check out Albion’s website as they have a good range of type XV XVI, XVII and XVIII. Tinker has also produced a few lovely examples of a XV and XVI I also have a Albion Agincourt on order which is a type XVa
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2009 22:24:49 GMT
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 12, 2009 23:38:39 GMT
For sure guys, you can see that the second and third swords that i posted are going to be very proficient cutters. I just love the lines of a sword that comes to a very acute point, especially starting from a broad base. As mentioned for the purposes of this forums intended market the Hanwei Albrecht is also a proven cutter, even though. It has a quite slender profile. Even Tinker remarked that his type XVII does ok in the cut, expecially given it is a skinny hex section with little distal taper. Luka that is a beautiful and unique blade type and would be great to see reproduced. KR - I dont suppose you have a set of callipers around that you could maybe measure your sweet Albion's thickness 2" behind the tip? I wonder how much profile taper they gave her? Hotspur: what is that gothic sword on your wall there? I cant believe your A&A cut into a bottle in a boot, thats some serious test. I had an old motocross boot I tried to hack into once (empty) and nothing would cut through through the wall. As for nominating types for swords, I avoid it as it's certainly unclear to me which should be which, and yes often they do overlap. Certainly an invitation for contention.
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Marc Ridgeway
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"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on May 12, 2009 23:51:49 GMT
Of course you know I just accepted delivery of my first XVIII e longsword from Gus .... I simply love it... the handling is suberb, and it is the equal of any cutter I've ever used depending upon the target... It doesn't cut really heavy gauge plastic as katana do, but on finesse cuts does as well as anything.... I haven't tried bamboo yet , and likely won't, but I did manage to lop a bit of cedar off of my stand with it...
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Post by hotspur on May 13, 2009 0:02:03 GMT
The gothic is the Del Tin 5157. Here with the A&A GBS and a Del Tin 2160. The 5157 is just over 51" overall and the longest of my swords here. In comparison, the A&A is three or so inches shorter and a pound heavier. That does play into cutting as well, in that the 5157 will not cleave targets the A&A will. The two Atrim in the wall shot are a 1319 XIIa with an eight inch grip at three pounds even and a XIIIa, a model no longer done but comes in at 2 lbs 13 oz. The thinner broad cutters make up the difference of a stouter heavy blade like the A&A GBS XVIIIa. The A&A I have shown come quite stout in the point. Even the EIII blade is still quite stiff, with the blade less than .180" most of the blade. The Albions continue to still have some pretty needly points and that had been an issue when some of their XVas came out. That can go to an eztremme and we were seeing some of those crumples and bends with the Generation 2 Henry IV swords. Looking back to some of the early impressions of Albion's XVa swords, you'll come across anecdotal damage in the pointy end of the swords. This has continued to be somewhat addressed but any sword or knife with points that sharp are going to either wear or be repaired in use. The Del Tin 5157 and its sister the 5155 have been popular with a good many owners. Ironically, I had come into that one in a trade for the A&A EIII compilation and then ended up buying that one back ( from who still thinks it may change back to them again). A&A has a one of up right now on their site with a narrower blade than the EIII but with those same Urbino fittings they use on their standard XVa. Tempting but the funds belong elsewhere right now. Cheers Hotspur; the 5157 has more flex than some feel appropriate but the thing will cut quite well and is a joy to handle with one or two hands
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Post by hotspur on May 13, 2009 0:17:21 GMT
Here are two more shots of the sword A&A put together. The blade is their Edward III blade and the fittings of the Duke Of Urbino fittings. It is a hefty single hander and a brute of a cutter. I have been quite appreciative at the number of swords Albion has come to offer. The price has made me wander to other things but there are a few of their pointies I wouldn't all all mind having a couple. Gus has done quite a few XVI types over the years and trends tend to go in waves for much of the market. Even A&A went through a spurt of expansion with some more diverse models. It has been a bit rough lately to still mention Gus as one of the big three (as some might refer it to) but with those price points at three and lower four figure prices, it is still a place to find really very nice swords from all of them. Cheers Hotspur; I do often feel I have accumulated more than I use regularly but all seem to fit one niche or another
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 1:21:11 GMT
That Peter Johnsson Type XV rocks...I want it... Here are my thrusters: Albion Mercenary (Type XVa): One of the best production XVs on the market today, nothing I have owned thrusts as well as this Albion. It cuts well, but the short CoP takes a little getting used to. Del Tin 5161 (Type XVIIIb): This is kind of an oddball classification, some call it a Type XVIIIe. The blade is a little wide, but still classified as a thrusting weapon - though its a hearty cutter as well. Del Tin 5140 (Type XX):
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Post by YlliwCir on May 13, 2009 2:37:06 GMT
While it's no secret I like a good cutting sword. I have a healthy appreciation for the thrust as well. My Albion Poitiers has a very acute reinforced point for the thrust and will cut quite adequately also. A very stiff blade btw. Heres a vid.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 13, 2009 3:28:23 GMT
Ric, KR, Or Odin, or anyone with an Albion type XV, could someone please measure for me the blade thickness 2" behind the tip please (In fact I'll give +1karma for each point of measurement - base, middle, 1" back from tip etc...) I know the diamond section gives them strength, but I do wonder how much distal taper they give them. As mentioned I'm making some but have no other examples here to study so the help is really appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by YlliwCir on May 13, 2009 10:05:43 GMT
Brenno, I have continued to procrastinate a purchase of calipers so I have no way of knowing precisely. My eye can detect very little distal taper to the Poitiers. The last inch or so of other tip appears a wee bit thicker. Here is an excerpt from a review on My Armoury. It does not exhibit quite as much distal taper as other cutting swords I have handled. This helps to keep it rigid and the point strong for better thrusts. Because of the narrow, relatively thick point, it would be easy to think that this blade would not be as sharp at the end, but this is not true. Albion has done a very nice job of creating an edge geometry that still allows for effective cuts with the tip.
No need for karma here, let me give you a well earned one instead.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 13, 2009 11:03:17 GMT
And back at you. I need you guys! I have no way to personally study historical pieces OR Albions, especially since Albions are the closest things to historical replics with all the research and accuracy that goes into them. The closest thing in Perth Museum here is a Woomera or a Boomerang. Digital calipers on ebay cost a pittance. shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZdigitalQ20calipersQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR40QQ_mdoZ
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 12:48:08 GMT
here's another shout out for Type XVIII's......... these two in my collection I truly enjoy.... Del-Tin 5155 Windlass Verneuil some really nice blades have been posted...eye candy is good! cheers, Bill
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 16:27:01 GMT
Ric, KR, Or Odin, or anyone with an Albion type XV, could someone please measure for me the blade thickness 2" behind the tip please (In fact I'll give +1karma for each point of measurement - base, middle, 1" back from tip etc...) I know the diamond section gives them strength, but I do wonder how much distal taper they give them. As mentioned I'm making some but have no other examples here to study so the help is really appreciated. Thanks! I don't have any way of accuratly messurin, but i may be able to borrow some callipers over the week end, if i can ill drop you a PM
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 22:57:48 GMT
I will borrow my dad's calipers and get you the measurements over the next few days.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 13, 2009 23:44:32 GMT
Sweet thanks guys, I really appreciate it. As mentioned the more thickness specs the better for me to get a feel for the engineering of these thrusters. I use 6mm stock, and while I assume there would be some distal taper, I probably would want to keep the end around 4.5mm thick rather than the usual 50% DT. Such narrow points would probably still handle great even left at full thickness, but I'd feel dirty doing that. (What, no distal taper?) Eye Candy: Christian Fletcher's Bayerisches XVIIIb
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 19:12:28 GMT
I like the look and feel of these swords; been eyeing the Mercenary for a while now...
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