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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2009 22:40:36 GMT
I'm putting a sometimes divided but often united question to people, simply put: "How much do you invest in a Scabbard?". Its the one little item which is synonymous as the blade contained within. And the value of a replica can often dictate the quality of the scabbard made with it. Alot of companies say the scabbard is a freebie with the blade, fair enough explains the poor quality of it (poor fit, poor assembly, no wood core). Some dont bother prefering to just concentrate on the blade itself (which in all not a bad focus). Some companies are making it a big selling point with their product ala Valiant Armoury and their Christian Fletcher collaboration. And some make a living just off the scabbards, as in the before mentioned Christian Fletcher, DBK Customs and other talented leathersmiths and cutlers. So really something for everyone but is it for you ........ your looking at the blade but how much are you eyeing the sheath 1) At what price range should you get the basics, (wood core, leather cover)? How much extra would you pay on cheaper blades to have them dump the junk and measure up a wood core for fit and leather cover? 2) At what price range do you feel you should be getting better fittings with the wood and skin (steel throat, steel chape)? 3) What price range do you feel (barring what a good custom leathersmith/scabbard maker does) should you be getting belts, cast fittings and a "limited" choice in leather color on a "production blade"? 4) What components are minimal for you to go above the $300.00 mark on a production blade? Everyone has a need or desire when it comes to scabbards as much as the blades themselves, otherwise Mr Fletcher would be outta business and Sonny would be back to the drawing board SO whats your opinion ?
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Post by YlliwCir on May 3, 2009 4:20:02 GMT
That's a complicated question, Brissy. My focus is usually the sword not the scabbard, there are exceptions. Hanwei's Edward III comes with a very nice scabbard. The hand and a half (Albrecht II) has a decent one also. However their Bastard sword's scabbard while looking nice isn't very sturdy, the throat came loose pretty quick. Overall tho, I'd say Hanwei does well in this area.
Other brands, not so much, but then like I said before I'm not buying the scabbard. Both my Atrims are scabbardless as is my Albion and they will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future. I just can't see buying a scabbard when I can get another sword for around that amount of money. I might feel different if I attended events or reenactments.
I do appreciate it when a sword comes with a good scabbard. Just now thinking about it. It seems the more budget friendly swords I have came with some halfway decent scabbards. Besides the Hanwei, my KC gladius came with a very nice woodcore scabbard and the VA practicals came with decent ones. My CS cutlass came with a nice leather scabbard. The Windlass Military Rapier/Sword has a passable one also among others. I don't recall paying much attention to the scabbard when contemplating a purchase, tho the Hanwei's did catch my eye.
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Post by kidcasanova on May 3, 2009 4:52:28 GMT
Like Rick said, it's a complicated question. I love the VA Signature because it's an all-around package. A great sword and scabbard for a great price. You cant get a much better deal for a combo like that from any company.
If it comes with a crappy "freebie" scabbard (Windlass, etc), then I have to ask whether the sword alone is worth the asking price, instead of looking at it like a package. Though my big gripe with Windlass is that their swords cost over two-hundred dollars, yet we still get cruddy scabbards and sometimes spotty QC, whereas the VA Practicals are in the same pricerange and come with a good woodcore scabbard and perform far better on average. It baffles me.
So to answer your question, I pay attention to the scabbard if it's nice. If not, I ignore it.
I realize you asked more questions than that, but I don't feel I have enough experience to sufficiently give my opinion to the others.
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Post by Brian of DBK on May 3, 2009 20:53:17 GMT
I'd like to add my own .02 cents here, and try to answer some questions. Historically, scabbards have been known to cost as much or more than the sword. While it may not appear so, there is a tremendous amount of labor that goes into a scabbard. If you want to look at it from a collector's standpoint, the sword is the picture, and the scabbard is the frame. You can hang a picture on the wall and it still looks decent, but when you add a frame, the picture comes alive and they compliment each other. Even though a collector may not ever use the scabbard, it is still a very complimentary part of the sword that completes the 'picture' persay. I consider myself an artist, or artisan, and most of my customers are purchasing art. I've gone to great lengths to become skilled at my art, not only aesthetically, but historical aspects as well tie into my work. Scabbards aren't for everyone, for sure, but once you have a nice 'custom' scabbard, I assure you that you will feel different about them. If you're thinking "but why so much"? Well, it's all hand labor. Most people today don't understand hand labor and the fee's that apply to that. Almost everything made today is made from machines, mass-produced to keep the cost down. That is why things that do require hand-labor are made overseas, to keep the cost down because the labor is cheaper. To better understand what people that do collect think about custom scabbards, please read the last two post's in this thread www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16257 on My Armoury. Though I've received compliments before, these two are some of the nicest compliments I've ever received. It also exemplifies best what I'm talking about.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 14:28:29 GMT
When I look at a sword, I do look at the scabbard, but not as much as I used to. Now that I'm aware of folks like Brian and Russ, I'm not too pressed about the scabbard; besides, with my experience with Windlass, I'm used to the crappy scabbard. Having said that, I don't consider a Windlass worthy of a DBK custom scabbard- maybe one of his lower end offerings, but not a full on $700+ piece of art.
It is my goal to commission a piece from him but I'll need the sword first and since money for that has not become available, its a backburner type of thing for now. But I'm getting one because I tend to wear my swords.
I know some people may think its funny, but I gear up and head to the Renn Faire and no kit is complete w/out your sword. Granted, in MD they generally don't allow weapons but that's when I remove the blade and keep the belt and scabbard on...and let me tell you, the scabbard gets all the love. Since you can't draw your weapon what's the first thing people lay eyes on? Once they get past the armor and surcoat, they're looking right at the scabbard. I can just imagine the attention I'd receive if I had a Tritonworks or DBK custom with the suspension rig and belts, all matches with my kit. Yea...I'm gonna do that.
I even wear a sword when I'm just putzing around at home; not all the time, just when I'm in the mood. Its much better when the scabbard is functional and looks nice- as opposed to the wide-mouth leather scabbards that you usually see as 'free' or 'comes with'.
I just bought my wife a Hanwei practical arming, it came with a nice (or so I thought) scabbard; anyone know what its made of? I hope not plastic; but it holds the sword well, better than any of my Windlass ones.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 15:14:00 GMT
If you're thinking "but why so much"? Well, it's all hand labor. Most people today don't understand hand labor and the fee's that apply to that. Almost everything made today is made from machines, mass-produced to keep the cost down. That is why things that do require hand-labor are made overseas, to keep the cost down because the labor is cheaper. Totally agree! I have recently started making some of my own scabbards, (nothing close to the quality that you produce though), and it takes a LOT of labor and time to create one. This doesn't even take into account the special tools that are required. BTW.. your scabbards are awesome!!! gaffer
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 15:18:56 GMT
I just bought my wife a Hanwei practical arming, it came with a nice (or so I thought) scabbard; anyone know what its made of? I hope not plastic; but it holds the sword well, better than any of my Windlass ones. The hanwei practical scabbards appear to be constructed of fiberglass and/or resin. I agree that they are pretty nice scabbards. I have wrapped a couple of them with leather, and they turned out pretty good. gaffer
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 15:24:27 GMT
Thanks gaffer...I didn't think it was wood, but it was well fitted.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on May 4, 2009 16:13:43 GMT
Brian:
I congratulate you, sir, on pursuing artistry and artisanship in a "stamp it out" world. I haven't dipped a toe into the custom scabbard world yet, but I have experience about the difference between "off the rack" and "custom made, by hand" in other areas. The difference is like night and day.
One of the things that really bothers me about this world we live in is the denigration of skilled craftsmanship. Once more, applause for you! (And karma too!)
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Post by sparky on May 4, 2009 20:12:29 GMT
I'm glad that the few swords I have did come with scabbards. Like Ebon I'll putz around the house wearing my sword. {Does this make me a geek ;D? Not that I really care.} And since I can't display my swords yet the scabbards make a convenient storage place for them. Sadly in my closet right now , but someday they'll have a place on a wall out of their scabbards ;D. So I wish all swords came with scabbards. Now I have not bought any of the higher end ones yet, so who knows maybe I'll change my opinion when I take the next step in sword buying.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 20:16:48 GMT
sparky, I don't think we classify as geeks...at least not WHILE we wear them! Which reminds me, Gaffer makes a nice scabbard; wonder if he'll begin taking commissions?
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Post by Brian of DBK on May 5, 2009 3:24:09 GMT
If you're thinking "but why so much"? Well, it's all hand labor. Most people today don't understand hand labor and the fee's that apply to that. Almost everything made today is made from machines, mass-produced to keep the cost down. That is why things that do require hand-labor are made overseas, to keep the cost down because the labor is cheaper. Totally agree! I have recently started making some of my own scabbards, (nothing close to the quality that you produce though), and it takes a LOT of labor and time to create one. This doesn't even take into account the special tools that are required. BTW.. your scabbards are awesome!!! gaffer Thanks Gaffer. Your work isn't too bad, either. Great stuff. Brian: I congratulate you, sir, on pursuing artistry and artisanship in a "stamp it out" world. I haven't dipped a toe into the custom scabbard world yet, but I have experience about the difference between "off the rack" and "custom made, by hand" in other areas. The difference is like night and day. One of the things that really bothers me about this world we live in is the denigration of skilled craftsmanship. Once more, applause for you! (And karma too!) Thanks, Cossack. I appreciate the kind words.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2009 4:24:20 GMT
My cold steel gim actually comes with a very attractive scabbard, I was really impressed with it.
And yeah, a scabbards mean something to me, I'm primarily a blade guy, but looking at the stuff DBK and Christian Fletcher produce definitely makes me feel that it's worth investing in a scabbard that matches the blades beauty.
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