Weaponedge:Two More Brit Swords
Feb 10, 2010 4:20:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2010 4:20:37 GMT
Weaponedge : 2 More British Swords
Introduction: This is a fourth installment regarding my recent purchase of eight Weaponedge swords thru Rob Stanford’s Stromloswords. The order was made on 2 Aug 2009. Delivery was on 13 January 2010. The two swords presented here are a quirky sort of non-marriage only having in common that they are both British Army. First is the 1873 Horse Guards Heavy Sword. Second is the last made infantry sword of the British Army, the 1897, which continues in service now.
Historical Overview
The Household Cavalry of Britain was an elite brigade consisting for sometime of the Mounted Grenadier Guards and two regiments of Life Guards. The elite status of these units generated an atmosphere of conspicuous overindulgence in their manner and equipment. Guards officers at one point had to provide themselves with three separate occasional swords. Efforts to standardize these weapons didn’t get traction until 1873 when the weapon shown here became the “state” weapon of the brigade. It was eventually superceded by the 1912 Cavalry Sword.
I have read superlatives given to the 1897 as the “best” infantry sword ever made. Nonsense about a weapon developed long after it served a purpose. There are occasional honorariums coming from the Boer War and odd brush fires in the wilder parts of the Empire. I spent three hours trying to find a picture of a WW I officer going over the top, sword in hand. I found one. But he was a German.
The 1873 Horse Guards This design was first tried in 1821 enlisted models. This basic sword was adopted by the 1st Life Guards in 1832 and won out over other models with general acceptance by the late 1860s. The 1873 directive formalized its adoption.
StatisticsBr 1873 Guards
Blade Length 38 1/2
Handle Length 4 1/2
Overall Length 44 1/2
Blade Width 1 1/8 in
Point of Balance 7 1/2 in
Percussion Point 28 1/2 ins
Sword Weight 2.2 lbs
Scabbard Weight 1.5 lbs
Components:
The Blade: A straight blade with long fuller to within 10 inches of the tip. Last ten inches are sharp front and back. Cypher on the blade is for Queen Victoria.
The Handle: Leather rather than fishskin with a fairly elaborate brocaded wire wrap. The 4.5 inch length is comfortable and allows the weapon to be fencible.
The Guard: A steel crenellated guard with brass ornamentation. 12 Brass slugs encompass the guard. A cipher with the crown, RHG script and the number 2 fronts the plate.
The Pommel: There is a decorative pommel. Pommel is capped.
The Scabbard: A light steel scabbard with ornate brass lockets and rings and a brass chape.
Handling Characteristics: Elegant, almost too light for its length. Dubious distal taper on this replica piece. I don’t have a real one to tap into, but the PoB is unconvincing. The 1st RHG took these swords to the Boer War. No record of their being used. The sword is amazingly light. Cutting with it is quite a challenge as it wobbles like a B52 wing.
The 1897 Infantry Officers The Infantry had gone thru most of the post Napoleonic 19th Century with the basic 1821 developed cut and thrust light infantry sword. Faults with its relative ineffectiveness as a cutter, and the ideological longstanding argument over whether cutting or thrusting was superior ended with adoption of the thrusting 1897 sword.
Statistics Br 1897 Inf Off
Blade Length 32 ½ in
Handle Length 4 1/2in
Overall Length 39 in
Blade Width 5/8 in
Point of Balance 5 1/2 in
Percussion Point 22 ins
Sword Weight 2lbs
Scabbard Weight 7 ozs
Components:
The Blade: Standard 32ish inch blade. The forte is blunt and fullered for 17 inches. The foible has an edge the entire length of the strong side and six inches of back edge.
The Handle: A comfortable 4.5 inches and well wired.
The Guard: A large crenellated plate 4.5 inches wide. There is a distinct acanthus pattern and the reigning sovereigns cipher on the plate. The WE sword botches the design badly as can be seen looking at an Army issue ER II pattern.
The Pommel: Top of the handle and pommel are one back strap piece. Ball at the end hides a screw.
The Scabbard: A light weight leather carrier comes with the sword.
Handling Characteristics: Given the PoB and weight the distal taper is off somewhat. In either case this is a light, stiff thruster. At two pounds this is a very comfortable fencer.
Conclusions:
Pro:
• Acceptable level of historical accuracy. Etchings are off enough to not fool a collector. The 1897s are off badly enough to disappoint.
• Good eye candy appeal for collection. These are ceremonial swords not fighters
• Bargain priced
Cons:
• Etching still could be refined. The 1897s etches are particularly vague.
Bottom Line:
The Guards sword is the stronger piece here. It’s more correct than the 97. The 97 is subject to a lot of code. There are a number of period cues that aren’t on the blades. ( i.e. Center of Percussion was a standard marking on Brit blades after 1885.)
The 1897s are fairly commonplace WW I relics. Prices go from $300-800. Guards swords are rare and pricey. The one 1873 I’ve seen on the market had a $3400 price tag. With stromlo discounts you can get the 1873 for $190 and the 1897 for $215.
More pics at photobucket:
s747.photobucket.com/albums/xx115/kelly1863/2%20More%20British%20Swords%201873%20and%201897/
Introduction: This is a fourth installment regarding my recent purchase of eight Weaponedge swords thru Rob Stanford’s Stromloswords. The order was made on 2 Aug 2009. Delivery was on 13 January 2010. The two swords presented here are a quirky sort of non-marriage only having in common that they are both British Army. First is the 1873 Horse Guards Heavy Sword. Second is the last made infantry sword of the British Army, the 1897, which continues in service now.
Historical Overview
The Household Cavalry of Britain was an elite brigade consisting for sometime of the Mounted Grenadier Guards and two regiments of Life Guards. The elite status of these units generated an atmosphere of conspicuous overindulgence in their manner and equipment. Guards officers at one point had to provide themselves with three separate occasional swords. Efforts to standardize these weapons didn’t get traction until 1873 when the weapon shown here became the “state” weapon of the brigade. It was eventually superceded by the 1912 Cavalry Sword.
I have read superlatives given to the 1897 as the “best” infantry sword ever made. Nonsense about a weapon developed long after it served a purpose. There are occasional honorariums coming from the Boer War and odd brush fires in the wilder parts of the Empire. I spent three hours trying to find a picture of a WW I officer going over the top, sword in hand. I found one. But he was a German.
The 1873 Horse Guards This design was first tried in 1821 enlisted models. This basic sword was adopted by the 1st Life Guards in 1832 and won out over other models with general acceptance by the late 1860s. The 1873 directive formalized its adoption.
StatisticsBr 1873 Guards
Blade Length 38 1/2
Handle Length 4 1/2
Overall Length 44 1/2
Blade Width 1 1/8 in
Point of Balance 7 1/2 in
Percussion Point 28 1/2 ins
Sword Weight 2.2 lbs
Scabbard Weight 1.5 lbs
Components:
The Blade: A straight blade with long fuller to within 10 inches of the tip. Last ten inches are sharp front and back. Cypher on the blade is for Queen Victoria.
The Handle: Leather rather than fishskin with a fairly elaborate brocaded wire wrap. The 4.5 inch length is comfortable and allows the weapon to be fencible.
The Guard: A steel crenellated guard with brass ornamentation. 12 Brass slugs encompass the guard. A cipher with the crown, RHG script and the number 2 fronts the plate.
The Pommel: There is a decorative pommel. Pommel is capped.
The Scabbard: A light steel scabbard with ornate brass lockets and rings and a brass chape.
Handling Characteristics: Elegant, almost too light for its length. Dubious distal taper on this replica piece. I don’t have a real one to tap into, but the PoB is unconvincing. The 1st RHG took these swords to the Boer War. No record of their being used. The sword is amazingly light. Cutting with it is quite a challenge as it wobbles like a B52 wing.
The 1897 Infantry Officers The Infantry had gone thru most of the post Napoleonic 19th Century with the basic 1821 developed cut and thrust light infantry sword. Faults with its relative ineffectiveness as a cutter, and the ideological longstanding argument over whether cutting or thrusting was superior ended with adoption of the thrusting 1897 sword.
Statistics Br 1897 Inf Off
Blade Length 32 ½ in
Handle Length 4 1/2in
Overall Length 39 in
Blade Width 5/8 in
Point of Balance 5 1/2 in
Percussion Point 22 ins
Sword Weight 2lbs
Scabbard Weight 7 ozs
Components:
The Blade: Standard 32ish inch blade. The forte is blunt and fullered for 17 inches. The foible has an edge the entire length of the strong side and six inches of back edge.
The Handle: A comfortable 4.5 inches and well wired.
The Guard: A large crenellated plate 4.5 inches wide. There is a distinct acanthus pattern and the reigning sovereigns cipher on the plate. The WE sword botches the design badly as can be seen looking at an Army issue ER II pattern.
The Pommel: Top of the handle and pommel are one back strap piece. Ball at the end hides a screw.
The Scabbard: A light weight leather carrier comes with the sword.
Handling Characteristics: Given the PoB and weight the distal taper is off somewhat. In either case this is a light, stiff thruster. At two pounds this is a very comfortable fencer.
Conclusions:
Pro:
• Acceptable level of historical accuracy. Etchings are off enough to not fool a collector. The 1897s are off badly enough to disappoint.
• Good eye candy appeal for collection. These are ceremonial swords not fighters
• Bargain priced
Cons:
• Etching still could be refined. The 1897s etches are particularly vague.
Bottom Line:
The Guards sword is the stronger piece here. It’s more correct than the 97. The 97 is subject to a lot of code. There are a number of period cues that aren’t on the blades. ( i.e. Center of Percussion was a standard marking on Brit blades after 1885.)
The 1897s are fairly commonplace WW I relics. Prices go from $300-800. Guards swords are rare and pricey. The one 1873 I’ve seen on the market had a $3400 price tag. With stromlo discounts you can get the 1873 for $190 and the 1897 for $215.
More pics at photobucket:
s747.photobucket.com/albums/xx115/kelly1863/2%20More%20British%20Swords%201873%20and%201897/